Wednesday, February 14, 2007

Paul Manata on Self-Esteem

Talk about feeling good about yourself. In the comments of this post at Triablogue, a commenter by the name of Gray_Mouser began a dialogue with Paul Manata, and eventually condemned Manata for being rude and mean. Now whether Manata was being rude or mean is not the point of this post. The point of this post is Paul's response to Gray_Mouser's charge:

Your unbelieving worldview doesn't allow for these condemnations, and, to the extent that you're correct, the Bible tells me that I'm a piece of trash, with a bad personality. So, thanks for coming here and confirming the biblical view of man for us.


Emphasis mine.

Ouch! I wonder if Paul Manata would bluntly proclaim to the world "I believe my wife is a piece of trash!" or "I believe my child is a piece of trash!"?

I, for one, couldn't love someone that I thought was a piece of trash, and that includes myself. Trash is unworthy of love. Boy, it sure feels good to be an unrepentant sinner right about now! If getting in God's good graces includes reducing everyone to human trash, including oneself, then God can write me off his "nice" list. If a line is drawn in the sand; if a choice must be made between humans and God in such a way, I will choose humans. Every. Single. Time.

Anyway, what we have here is a perfect example of the anti-human values that Christianity demands. Paul Manata is the real deal. He is the quintessential Christian. And his esteem-damaging views serve, I think, as a very effective tool for atheistic evangelizing: "Look everybody, these are the "values" that Christians think are so damn good! According to them, every human is a walking talking piece of trash with a bad attitude!"

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows, and you don't need a psychologist to know that this value system is bad for the human psyche. Maybe this admission from Paul could be used as fuel for some kind of atheistic "argument from disgust" or something? It certainly disgusts me.

7 comments:

beepbeepitsme said...

I would think that it would be difficult to see anyone as anything but trash to either be redeemed, or trash which will remain trash, if you have a belief system which insists that everyone is born into sin and in a "fallen" state.

It is like concentrating on the negative in people, or spending a lifetime looking for and FINDING the negative in people.

Aaron Kinney said...

BeepBeep,

Good point. But isnt it true that most Christians are more like paying lip service, and many of them really do believe (properly) that humans are basically good people?

Its like, this stuff from Paul is a more "jihadish" type of Christianity. I bet that if Paul took this statement and read it aloud in the pulpit of every church in America, many Christian congregants and preachers alike would take serious issue with his statement, DESPITE its scriptural accuracy.

And I think that it would also do much to open other Christians' eyes to the absurdity of their holy book. I bet lots of Christians wouldn't even understand that Paul is only parroting what his holy book tells him, and if they eventually did, it would make them agnostics.

say no to christ said...

Hey Arron thanks for the add to myspace. sorry it is a bit late. I'm a slacker.

And I am sorry(for myself mostly) I havent been around lately to read your blog, cuz it is one of my favorite blogs. I have been kind of busy over at protect.org
It is an organization dedicated to childrens rights and hits real close to home for me. I have decided to tell my own story to help futher the cause. My childhood was very painful and rehashing all the horrible memories puts me in a deep funk where I just dont want to do anything for a few days. I fucking hate that! Anyways, check out protect.org when you get a chance.

Sorry about posting off topic, but I am trying to bring more attention to Protect and it would be nice to see more atheists there.

Now back to the topic....I have long said that if you constantly tell people, especially children that they are unworthy, hopeless sinners, they will become unworthy, hopeless, sinners. That is why the majority of Americans suffer so many emotional disorders and take so many antidepression meds. Christians claim to be the happiest people, but the statistics say otherwise the MAJORITY of them are on antidepressants. It is a HUGE epidemic and the net is full of christians panicing about it.LOL Google up christians and antidepressants, its a hoot!

Monica said...

Well, I would have to agree with the blogger in this instance. Christianity, no matter how benign the sect, leads to this. This meaning the Trash vs Treasure idea.

We are told in Sunday School that we are made in the image of God,and that we are precious. Keep this going until about teen years where the idea of trash comes into view. It's not only self defeating, but contraditory(did I spell that correctly?). How can one's life be precious but that person also be trash? I would say that it isn't more about preciousness than numbers.
At least that's how I see it.

breakerslion said...

I, for one, have blissfully accepted my unworthiness and request that any improbable deities occupying some irrational plane of existence leave me the f__k alone.

God is trash. This rationalizes the two points of view that "we are made in god's image" and "we are trash" perfectly.

Proof: God = Love
In Christian philosophy:
Love = Agape
Agape = Bullshit
Bullshit = Offal
Offal = Biological Trash
Ergo: God = Trash

Hey Aaron, where was that other Aaron Kinney located? If it was "The Goose is Cooked", I think you can give it a strike-through now.

Aaron Kinney said...

The other Aaron Kinney? There are a few I believe. Off the top of my head I cant remember. I gotta check the Goose is Cooked thingy and see whats up. Ill give it a strikethrough if necessary. Thanks for the heads up! :)

Paul Manata said...

Strange, for a former Christian you sure are ignorant about Christian theology.

In fact, this sort of stuff is preached from many reformed pulpits. Books are written on the subject, etc.

Yes, my wife and I are trash, how could I love her? When I look at her, I see a person who trusts in Christ. She is clothed in the righteousness of Christ. So, we are clothed in His beauty.

What matters is not what we do, but what Christ has done for us.

It's always funny to see people so ignorant of Christian theology using their "former faith" as some sort of evidence to be used against christians. In all actuality, Aaron, you didn't know squat about Christianity. So, you rejected something you didn't even know about, and then think you have good arguments, but really, you're still arguing against your own anthropocentric view of Christainity that you believed.

Try refuting the real deal for once, instead of making yourself sound like a complete retard.