Wednesday, January 03, 2007

Televangelist's Family Says Prayer Doesn't Work

Darlene Bishop is a popular televangelist with a new book out called 'Your Life Follows Your Words.' In the book, she claims that prayer works so well that it healed her family of various diseases. Most controversially, Darlene Bishop claims that prayer healed her brother of throat cancer.

I say controversial because Darlene's brother actually died from throat cancer 18 months ago! And now her own relatives are suing her over this big fat lie:

His children, Bryan, Justin, Olivia and Christian, have issued a lawsuit for wrongful death against Mrs Bishop because they claim she persuaded Perry to stop chemotherapy and rely instead on God's healing. They contend in legal depositions that at the moment Mrs Bishop and her brother were touring the country preaching about the miracle of his recovery, they were both aware that he had been advised by doctors that his illness was terminal.


Ouch.

Prayer doesn't work. It simply fucking doesn't. In fact, prayer can even be counter-active to recovery from an illness, because of two main reasons. For one thing, every moment you spend praying is one less moment that you can spend actually working on curing the illness (let's hold off on the blood transfusion, there's a-prayin' to be done!). The other reason that prayer is counterproductive is that you can lead yourself into a false sense of security over your condition and/or eventual outcome, possibly deterring you from seeking proper attention at all or ignoring the worsening of the condition altogether (my own mother once suffered from this kind of ignorance at the hands of her parents, and you can read about it here).

It is a shame that Darlene's brother died over a bullshit belief. It is an even bigger shame that countless others have suffered and died over bullshit beliefs too.

God, prayer, and the afterlife are all bullshit beliefs. They never have, never will, and never can rise to the challenge, because they are nothing but little imaginary concepts inside our heads.

Just Say No to prayer.

32 comments:

Alex Mendes said...

Hey. I've seen your link in my visitors log.

Nice weblog the yours. Well, you are very good in your criticism about the faith in God. I am wide open to discuss and disagree about christian faith I've learned the last 10 years. And if my mind during all this time could not convince me God does not exist, all the things I've lived can't show me christianism is unfailable.

Well. I do not have your strenght or your desire to fight against faith. I do not want this. I've won an important battle about faith and the crises I've had. And I broke free from the weight of all the accusations about being myself.

So, the victory is mine. And as I am used to follow an ancient rule of War Art, I will not fight against God, Christ, if I have been victorious. Although I can't prove if they exist or not. Now, there is no problem in believing in both. Or not. Not for me. Well. I do believe churches are making mistakes in name of God and conducting people into alienation and other problems I have seen since I was a kind of black sheep inside there.

Well, it is 9 to 5 for you. An intelligent atheist fighting for what you believe.

And that makes the machine goes on functioning.

Things would be different if the majority of men were like me. I am conciously heterotopic about my philosophical and ethical beliefs. I do know I am in the middle of everything.

Anarchism and atheism are important to dialogue in our days. One thing I am really sorry about everything is that you and others are struggling for your conquests. Such as Trotsky or Byron, you will not enjoy the fruits of your battles as you'd have to. And I am not criticizing. And it is not a prophecy.

You do not believe in God. Or in government.

People such as me are different. I can't prove anything. So I can't fight, I can't get involved. And I can't disagree or agree with you. All I can do is respect and understand your freedom and right to do whatever you want. And recognize God does not want to chastise both of us by not believing him as people say he wants us to.

See you.

Just remembering: Thanks for clicking my website six times since Monday. I appreciate.

Alex Mendes said...

Oh. I made a terrible mistake. You clicked my website just once. But there is no need to me to complain. I just loved visting yours.

Thanks.

Drunken Tune said...

Aaron,

I laughed for a moment at the absurdity, then fell silent. Too many people are dead over prayer, and it's time for us to move on. An excellent post.

vjack said...

I had exactly the same reaction as Drunken Tune. First, I just had to laugh at the idea of anyone believing in prayer. Then I remembered the dire consequences of this belief and how many people miss out on adequate medical care because of it. I'm not convinced that superstition per se must be maladaptive. However, it certainly is in the case of religion.

Intergalactic Hussy said...

I'd rather talk to my imaginery friends. Its a delusion either way, but at least they would listen. (Note: I do not talk to imaginery people.)

Paul C. Quillman said...

Wow!!! What an adventure in missing the point. This lady should be sued. At first, I thought that she was just misinterpreting Scripture, but it is far worse than that. My guess is that she mishandles Scripture for profit (aka televangelist). Unfortunately, televangelist get in the way of Biblical Christianity.

The normative means of healing is through modern medical prescriptions for whatever the malady is. And in circumstances of His own choosing, God does choose to supernaturally heal. Prayer should always accompany the normative means, but I can't think of an instance in Scripture where prayer replaces medical treatment. Prayer is not trying to bargin with God, or to inform Him. Prayer is the means by which we communicate with God.

Anonymous said...

it is also important to relate to pauls writtings in the new testament where he asked god to heal him 3 times and he was denied because of different purposes, paul was a great man of god making up most of the early christian world, he was a good servent but his purpose was to be beheaded by nero, jesus says the life of a deciple is very hard and not peachy like most of the t.v. christians today try to portray, we are all on different paths twords knowledge and evolution of consciousness, so the road is different for all and the experiences in life are all somewhat different because we grow and learn through our experiences. i must say any true believer reads the word of god for what it is. some people read the word and they dont understand so they twist the meaning so it is worthless.. someone tell me how would you know if someone truely loved you if you didnt give them absolute free will to do whatever they want, aventually they would know there father by his teachings which will identify there true nature and will aline with there being. any son who is looking with devotion will find there father and his presence within there ownself and with that is revealed it is truly a gift...

Anonymous said...

oh and by the way you atheiest and unbelievers rely on science which is also searching for truth, i can garentee within time they will find truth in an afterlife, for the greatest scientist dont make assuptions without the entire truth known, and they make good guesses and find clues here and there from the building blocks of our world but they do not know it is beyond there knowledge still but if they search they will find, and anyone can make a good creative guess but we all know a guess is not a fact, so those of you who trust science please wait till they are finished to cast a belief, how silly it is to look at one piece of a puzzle and then assume its a small rock, when all the pieces are joined it really was is a huge mountain... how wrong it is to put so much trust in a little bit of findings, is it because of the great fear of what is not known? dont know but i hope there is more people who are willing to see the big mystery with an open mind instead of constsantly saying this is what we got so this is how it is..

Anonymous said...

how can you deny the holy spirit when you dont know of him, if you knew him then maybe you could stop being such an assumer and become a real finder, there are those who experince and there are those who watch, you seem to be a watcher, and you know about those watchers don't you? well they watch and thats all how can they ever place a label on anything for there findings are none, there truths are not really theres they belong to someone eles because you have to live through it to know it and the watchers thats all they do, how could they know anything????

Aaron Kinney said...

Paul C. Quillman,

You are retarded! Look at what you wrote:

"Prayer should always accompany the normative means, but I can't think of an instance in Scripture where prayer replaces medical treatment."

According to this website Jesus REPLACES the traditional physician. Not to mention that he allegedly healed the blind and sick. The website has this to say:

"Jesus’ role as "physician" and healer is so pervasive in his biographies and so essential to Jesus’ mission that he cannot be understood apart from it. The crowds seemed instinctively to see Jesus as a "physician." It’s a title he clearly deserves. One has only to skim through the biographies of Jesus to note the remarkable attention he gave to healing. He was a physician, a healer whose time was consumed with encounters with people who were sick, blind, lame, deaf, leprous, paralyzed or mentally ill. Each of the biographies portrays Jesus in this way."

Paul, I can think of MANY instances in scripture where prayer REPLACES medical treatment. How many times in the Bible do people ask Jesus for help with healing this or that ailment, and Jesus does so WITHOUT any non-godly physicians to assist him? Jesus Christ!

Paul, it is YOU who missed the point, not me. You continue to believe that prayer works, when it clearly DOESNT. And when confronted by my writings, you lose your spine and start compromising your own stance, as WELL as reducing the divine power and nature of your imaginary God, by limiting His healing power to be an accessory to regular doctors treatment.

How disgusting. You do a disservice to your Christian worldview and your God by compromising it so much.

Aaron Kinney said...

anonymous,

Your inability to make paragraphs, in addition to your neverending run-on sentences, is annoying. It hinders your ability to convey the ideas you wish to express. I suggest that in your future romps through the blogosphere you address this issue. It will only help your cause.

Anyway, lets get to what you said:

it is also important to relate to pauls writtings in the new testament where he asked god to heal him 3 times and he was denied because of different purposes,

Now, would a surgeon deny a liver transplant patient 3 times? Yea right!! Looks like your God could use a hippocratic oath, huh? :P

paul was a great man of god making up most of the early christian world, he was a good servent but his purpose was to be beheaded by nero

And how many medical doctors today would deny a cancer patient due to their foreknowledge that said cancer patient was scheduled to be beheaded by somebody? Your God is a horrible, horrible creature. Thank God (irony intended) that he DOESNT EXIST!

oh and by the way you atheiest and unbelievers rely on science which is also searching for truth, i can garentee within time they will find truth in an afterlife,

How can you guarantee this? Do you have any evidence or "truth" that you would like to share with me?

for the greatest scientist dont make assuptions without the entire truth known, and they make good guesses and find clues here and there from the building blocks of our world but they do not know it is beyond there knowledge still but if they search they will find

What about those who wrote the Bible? Did they make assumptions and make guesses during their authoring of the Bible? Or did they have "proof" due to some evidence that our moder scientists did not yet discover?

It seems to me, anonymous, that you are holding a double standard. One for scientists, and a different (or non existant one) for the authors of the Bible. Did the author of Genesis have an x-ray telescope with which to discover and detail the creation event process? Did the author of Genesis have fossils with which to flesh out the timeline of the creation of life? Etc...?

and anyone can make a good creative guess

Yeah! The writers of the Bible certainly made creative guesses didnt they! I wouldnt call those guesses "good" by todays standards, but I guess they were pretty good for back then.

but we all know a guess is not a fact, so those of you who trust science please wait till they are finished to cast a belief

Likewise, chum. Please wait until scientists figure it all out before you place all your eggs in one basket. What Im saying is, dont go believing in ancient storybooks until science can fully verify its claims.

And maybe you should start applying these declared standards of yours to your own beliefs and worldview.

how wrong it is to put so much trust in a little bit of findings, is it because of the great fear of what is not known?

Oh the irony!!! Oh, the delicious irony! Do you not see what you are saying? Can you apply this to your own beliefs? Why, anonymous, do you put so much trust in a "little bit of findings" (aka the Bible)? Is it because of your great fear of what is not known?

Wow! Anonymous, you are truly a brainwashed believer; a part of the collective; a parrot trained very well to squak on cue. I almost feel bad for you, if you werent obviously so complacent in your mindwarping. Fortunately for me, I can see right through you. I dare you to come talk to me on Skype someday. I will blow your mind, pal. Do you dare take the red pill?

Paul C. Quillman said...

Aaron
You are retarded!

Paul
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? My comment about missing the point was directed at the televangelist, not you. Perhaps I did not make that clear. Sorry

As to Jesus being called the Great Physician, yes He is. He did miracously heal and healing cannot be seperated from His earthly life. He does heal according to His good pleasure. However, while miracles do occur, they are called miracles for a reason. They are not normal to our human experience.

Also, I may have been unclear in the following:

"Prayer should always accompany the normative means, but I can't think of an instance in Scripture where prayer replaces medical treatment."

Let me correct this, as you have correctly pointed out an incorrect statement I made. Scripture does not place a general command to refuse medical attention when it is appropriate to do so. Your mother should have been taken to a doctor. The televangelist should have taken her brother to a doctor as well. There is no proper theological position that would say otherwise. God chooses to heal through whatever means He sees fit. Even one of Jesus' desciples was a doctor.

I think that you are ascociating me with a theological camp (or a compilation of various camps) that I simply do not belong to. I am conservative Presbyterian (aka Reformed). I subscribe to the Westminser Confessions of Faith as an accurate reflection of Biblical theology. I agree with much of John Calvin, Martin Luther, Thomas Chalmers, Augustine of Hippo and RC Sproul among a long list of others.

One of the things that the Reformation brought was a reinvigoration of the study of science, medical science being one of them. Reformed churches have historically viewed medical doctors with great respect. They fulfill the creation mandate in Genesis 3.
I do no disservice to Christianity in believing this. I have not lost any spine. I do not reduce the power or effectiveness of God at all, and I couldn't even if I wanted to.

Aaron, do you think that someone who believes in Christ somehow seperates that belief from the rest of the created order in such a way that the material world either does not exist or is irrelevant?


Again, sorry for my miscommunication, espicially with regards to my first sentence earlier.

Paul

Aaron Kinney said...

Whoops!

Sorry about the misunderstanding Paul. Yes, I did think that your retarded comment was directed at me, and thats why I responded in such a way.

I have not lost any spine. I do not reduce the power or effectiveness of God at all, and I couldn't even if I wanted to.

Agreed, now that I got your theological position cleared up.

Aaron, do you think that someone who believes in Christ somehow seperates that belief from the rest of the created order in such a way that the material world either does not exist or is irrelevant?

I believe that some Christians do, yes. Many have expressed this to me in no uncertain terms.

However, there are some Christians who do not hold this view.

Well Im glad that we cleared up the other stuff :)

Paul C. Quillman said...

Aaron,
I have met such Christains as well, I was one of them at one time.

Properly understood, the Gospel changes everything. The material world matters because God created it. Unfortunately, Christians either do not realize this, or they ignore it because it does not fit into their theological bents. Dispensationalist come to mind. (Think the Left Behind crowd).

The late Dr. Francis Schaeffer, in his book, "A Christian Manifesto" opens with this sentence:

"The basic problem of the Christians in this country over the last eighty years or so, in regard to society and in regard to government, is that they have seen things in bits and pieces instead of totals."

Part of what Dr. Schaeffer was talking about was the seperation of the Biblical Christianity from the material world. It exists. It has value because God created it. From a Biblical prespective, when Jesus returns, He does not come back to distroy everything, He comes back to make all things new. While the fall of man in the garden of Eden affected everything, there is still a lot of baby with the bathwater. There are things here and now about the created order that are very wrong (Hitler, Saddam, Bin Laden) but there is much that is still right (beauty, order, justice in some parts of the world).

While this might all seem unrelated, it is not. How a Christian views the book of Revelation greatly affects how they view the rest of life. The Left Behind crowd tend to run to their holy huddles, and wait for the world to be blown up, and every evil sinner to get their due. (Reread that with a snear). Those who read Revelation differently, do not see that the material world la ssuch little value. We see that it has much value, and it is created for our bennifit. Modern advances in medicine, while not perfect, are certainly part of that. As a Christian, I am grateful for them, as these advances and the people that used them, were instrumental in helping my 3rd son live and thrive though being born 7 weeks early. God called out certain people to develop the treatments. It is how He chose to extend mercy to my son, and the rest of my family in that situation.

Thanks for allowing me to clear up the previous conclusion. You are a reasonable guy, and someitmes, when you poke at Christians in jest (because lets face it, Christians can take themselves way too seriously. It would help us a lot if we could just learn to laugh at ourselves, and remember, we are not the message, not are we as individuals the point) I do find it amusing.

Paul

Hiraeth said...

Aaron, if I may agree with Paul here, prayer should not replace medical treatment. Both are means ordained of God. Given that I have had relatives in the medical profession, and that many people in the church I go to are either medics or trainee medics, I find the idea of an antithesis between prayer and medical treatment quite ridiculous. That said, those persons who encourage this deserve to be exposed for what they are.

Just because God rules the nations does not mean that Governments are evil and should be abolished, and this is in the same area.

Finally, what does happen when a person is beyond treatment, when cancer is found and it is too late to operate? Or when there is no known cure for a disease? To tell a person that a cure may be found is to give false hope here, is it not? To sit by the bedside smirking, whether in body or in spirit, is that good, is that moral? To brutally say 'well, that's it?' Or to pray for a miracle, when that is all that is left of hope? Even then, we must be realists. Every man or woman must die, as certainly as night must fall.

Think on that.

say no to christ said...

Great topic Aaron. In Dawkin's new book he talks about how prayer doesn't work and actually can make the people being prayed for worse. The studies showed that the people who knew they were being prayed for had higher anxiety levels. Probably due to the guilt and shame religious beliefs inflick on its followers.

I know when I believed, I was so full of guilt and shame, I didn't believe I was worthy and feared gods judgment of me. I can only imagine that if someone would have stood over me and prayed for me in my time of need, I would have been pissing myself.

Thank god[;)] he doesn't exist! lol

Anonymous said...

aaron you are obviously a confused closed minded person because you are as any believer in god is and that is you dont know, noone knows, but to be so blunt you go as a believer in god and believe in something that is not proven, you can say whatever you like but the fact is your beliefs are just as much as shit as anyone eles, to label is to know and what do you know?? infact what does anyone know? they know the buildong blocks that make up our world, what do they know other then that?? they can't disprove a god and that is a fact, they cant prove god either so what are you going on about with this retarded as blog based on your beliefs cause the root of your beliefs are certainly not proven, you say the thought of an afterlife is stupid but you should know that if you believe that then what is your point of living?? living is obviously stupid too, your confused and scared as most people are because you cant put everything in a box and label they shit... you think your so smart.. ive seen smarter, you think your so right... how can you know right when you cant even reconize your own mind, your are a hypocrite because you judge believers in god all the time tell me your fucken proof...... hahaha there is none, and any ordinary person will tell you that you cant make a full assumpution on anything until it is finished, and the fact is the smart scientist are far from being finished so take your myths and shove it with the rest of you assumers because noone really cares they read your opinions and they laugh because your a think you know it all but what do you know, why dont you think your beliefs in being an atheiest are simply a belief and not a fact??? so young lad its time to wake up to the real world everyones got different beliefs and there is no real evidence, this is life and it ends, so tell me you think when you die you will end and there will be nomore you, well what if your wrong do you ever think that could be a possibility??? most believers in god will agree and say its not possible that god doesnt exist they believe that strongly and there is nothing you can say or wine about that would ever change there mind because they found enough personal evidence that noone can disprove, so what is the purpose of this, it seems to me you are looking for a cry out for help because your confusion is eating you.. well thats all for now and i dont give a rat about the spelling...

Anonymous said...

and if you really knew science you would see the same damn separation as you see with someone who is not a scientist, there are some that believe in a god and others that do not, you are focused so much on religion and how it was created to control the masses, i agree that is what religion is, but i understand how wise can bring wisdom yet the one who hears the words abuse them, example: the christian faith is to love everyone as yourself and never take revenge, love is the key factor inthe christian religion, why is there so much wrong with the followers then?? well lets see george bush says he is a christian but he stands for murder and war, is that what the christian faith teaches?? no, the christian faith teaches love, love and die and the name of love, if someone is beating you then let them without fighting back, for there is no peace in hate and there is no truth in destruction.. soooooooo stop and look at the real belief and not the actions of misguided believers, also you spoke of medical wouldnt deny anyone of treatment, thats so funny how they would never do it for free they only want your money, where is the love and sacrifice for your brother in medical?? there are many doctors who care but ask them if they would still do it without the money, if you were born a poor child and you have cancer, tell me what doctor would help you then, and i dont mean those charity hospitals either, i mean the real docs, where would they be then???? there are starving kids with aids in africa, the lord gave free will so his creation can use there own findings to care for his brother, tell me what would humanity learn if he cant even lend a hand to his brothers?? all those starving people and all those rich pricks with so much, why is that? even if they donated a couple million dollars what is that when your loaded, give it all to those children i say and create a program to teach those oppressed people how to take care of themselves because they dont know how to otherwise, the crime, the cancer, the evil in this world, is it because of god or is it because noone cares about his brother enough to help him out.. how can someone know of there ways unless it was shown to them in there existence, the act of most if not all death and suffering is becuase of humanity alone, they cant even take care of there enviorment how can they help there brother, they were given athority and responsibility and they abused it in every area, how can we be trusted???? and you have the nerve to blame the one who actually gave your ass a chance, look at yourselves how can you blame anyone??

Anonymous said...

PLEASE ANSWER BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR MORE OF YOUR ACCUSATUONS UPON EVERYONE, YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO BLAME FOR THE PROBLEMS THAT HUMANITY CREATED, OBSERVE YOUR THOUGHTS ARE THEY NOT FULL OF HATE AND JUDGEMENT, ARE THEY NOT OVERFLOWN WITH FEAR AND ANGER, WELL THEN THERE IS YOUR PROBLEM, YOUR THOUGHTS AS WELL AS EVERYONES ARE YOUR EXISTANCE, YOUR WORLD, SO WHY BLAME OTHERS, ARE YOU GOING TO BE A GREAT SAVIOR TO PEOPLE WHEN YOU CANT EVEN CONTROL YOUR THOUGHTS AND HATERED TWORDS ANYTHING AND EVERYONE THAT MAY APPEAR DIFFERENT TO YOU BECAUSE THEY DONT BELIEVE WHAT YOU DO, YOU WANT TO SAY HOW BAD A GOD IS, CAN YOU NOT SEE YOURSELF, CAN YOU NOT SEE HOW EVERYONE IS FULL OF HATE, SALVATION IS THE LAST WE'LL SEE OF OUR PLANET WITH THE WAY WE ARE, IF YOU WANT TO PROCLAIM YOUR MESSAGE OF YOUR BELIEFS AND EXSPECT SOMEONE TO TRUST AND BELIEVE YOU THEN SHOW IT BY FIRST THINKING ABOUT OTHERS, WHY SHOULD ANYONE PUT THERE FAITH IN MAN WHEN HE HATES HIMSELF, WHO WILL FIND TRUTH IN SUCH A RECKFUL PERSON??????? TRUTH CAN NOT LIVE AMONGST LIES, JESUS IS TRUTH BECAUSE HE LIVED A LIFE IN WHICH NO OTHER COULD EVEN THINK UP, IF ALL YOU KNOW IS PEOPLE WHO ARE GOOD SOMETIMES BUT STILL DO BAD, THEN HOW CAN YOU EVER KNOW SOMEONE WHO WAS INNOCENT WAS GOOD ALL THE TIME WITH NO EVIL IN HIM??? JESUS DID NOTHING TO YOU YET YOU TRASH HIM AND MOCK HIM AS IF YOU WAS AN ANCESTER OF THE SLAVES WHO HATES THE WHITE MAN NOW FOR SOMETHING THEY THEMSELVES DIDNT EVEN DO, HOW AWFUL IT IS, EVEN IF YOU DONT BELIEVE JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD YOU STILL CANT ADKNOWLEDGE HIS UNCHANGEABLE LOVE FOR HIS BROTHERS, HOW HE DID DIE FOR HIS BELIEFS, WHAT DID HE DO WRONG TO YOU, IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THEN FINE LEAVE IT AT THAT YOU SPEAK OF SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT CARE TO ARGUE WITH YOU, SOMEONE WHO KNOWS TRUTH AND NEEDS NO COMMENT FROM YOU, YOU THINK ITS FUNNY TO LAUGH AND HATE PEOPLE, WELL HOW ARE YOU SO DIFFERENT, WHAT MAKES YOU SO BETTER THEN ANOTHER PERSON?? IS IT BECAUSE OF THE CARDS YOU GOT DEALT IN LIFE OR IS IT BECAUSE YOUR JUST SO PROUD OF YOURSELF, WHAT AN ILLUSION, WHAT A LIE, NOTHING MORE THEN A LIE...........

Anonymous said...

energy- can neither be created or destroyed, what does that tell us of who we are? energy is the force behind everything, nothing is ever destroyed it is only broken down and recycled, what can this tell us of who we are?? what exactly is trasformation, well it takes place within everything, we are atoms, conscience and aware atoms at that, what does this say about who we are, well lets put it together, nothing just doesnt exist if it exist already, when death comes it is only breaking down into atoms which are recycled and reused, it is the act of trasformation from one form to another. atoms are aware and conscience of thereself so our consciousness is transformed unto another form, whose to say what that might be but it is sure enough eternal as energy the pure force behind all things, without consciousness and awareness there is only a prgrammed machine, think of it as a plane without someone controling the direction, it is only a machine without the force behind it.. a human is obviously a machine with out the force behind it, there is energy behind the living body and without the energy or spirit or essence then there is no human with his possibilties and free will to evolve, its so funny how anyone can believe in death as an end to ones being when there is certainly solid proof, why then cant so many see it?? i have no idea why anyone cant see the force for what it is, it is eternal, energy is everything, energy is consciousness and it dwells in everything, all that is known will never be lost because it is ever transforming into greater possibilites, why are so fearful of death do you not even know your own existence, even the most ignorant can understand such simple things, people let appearence and image cloud there minds to not understand, nothing is nothing unless there is something to be nothing, there is only pleasure because of pain there is only good because of evil there is only happiness because of sorrow, all these emotions belong to the body and the laws of nature inwhich we live, energy in its pure form is neither this nor that, it just is, this tell us that energy in its everlasting existence can be transformed into whatever it so wishes, i believe many place limits on who we really are, why would energy create our earth and us and also create such limitations for the pysical body inwhich this energy so dwells, well there is only one reason and that is for the experience alone, and i am sure with the fact that there is really unlimited possibilties for this energy then we can expect greater things in our transformation from one form to the next, for it is said that nothing is created unless created in the mind first then it is made concrete, all that this energy has created was 1st thought up,there is proof within every single person of this great truth, we create, that is who we are, is this not true??? the force is god and if you dont believe it then what can i say your an atheiest, but really who can disprove the laws of physics???

Truth is air to the soul said...

Hello anonymous writer I happen to come across your comment and i was very pleased to see that you hit the mark on your ideas, although an unbeliever is very sceptical about everything, I took the passage from my web page to better explain your thoughts to better explain it more in the method of science..

Many people debate about whether there is a God, or what God is. Is God an individual personality, sitting up in heaven listening to and granting our requests, or is God simply all the energy that exists in the whole universe? Well, I believe God is both of those things.

The Bible says God is a spirit (John 4:24). It also says that the spirit, given by God, is what gives man understanding (Job 32:8). And finally, it says that God is light (I John 1:5).

It is important to understand that ancient man described God with an ancient vocabulary and ancient idea sets, but that we can breathe new life into these verses by understanding what was really being said.

What is light? It's energy. When a person is brain dead, no electrical activity registers on a EEG test. Why? Because his spirit, which is what brings life to the body and understanding to the mind, is electrical energy. And when the spirit leaves the body, the body dies because the energy which powered the body is no longer present. God is light, so he is energy, and both God and we are spirit beings. So God, and light, and energy, and the essence of each of us as spirit beings, is all the same. We are all made up of the same physical and spiritual essence: energy.

Everything that exists in the universe is made up of energy. Every atom has electrons, sub-atomic particles containing an electrical charge, which orbit around the atom's nucleus. Every atom has energy. True, some atoms have more energy than others; some have more electrons orbiting their nucleus than others, and some are moving faster than others. The energy in a piece of wood is moving very slow compared to the energy in a pan of boiling water, but both contain the same kind of energy.

There is a scientific law that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes form (conservation of energy). To be more precise, it states that in a closed system (our universe, for the purposes of our discussion) energy is conserved. In other words, all the energy that ever existed, that was present at the beginning, still exists. God, who is all energy, in the beginning took from his own energy to make everything that exists. Biblical scholars have made much of the original language of Genesis 1:1 saying that the word "created" means "ex nihilo" or "out of nothing". In other words, God made everything from nothing. We must understand that biblical writers used their own limited vocabulary and knowledge of science to explain what they thought they saw or were told. The fact that the universe may have "appeared" out of nowhere does not mean it was created from nothing. Many forms of energy cannot be seen. Since God is energy, and we know that everything that exists is made from energy, and keeping in mind that energy cannot be created or destroyed, we see that God took from the pool of existing energy, which was HIM, and created everything there is. Therefore, not only are the atoms and molecules and sub-atomic particles in a blade of grass made by God, they are part of God himself. God took of his energy, and changed the appearance of some of it so that it looks different. But it is still a part of him, just as our hearts and livers are part of us. So every blade of grass, every raindrop, every animal, every human being, every biological microorganism, every molecule of wood that forms the chair you are sitting on is GOD. Not just part of God, but IS God. Everything is sacred, because everything is made from the energy that is God. This takes away the dividing line between secular and sacred.

How can I say that? You might be thinking that to say everything is PART of God is understandable, but to say that everything IS GOD....how can that be? Because scientists have discovered that every particle of matter and energy that exists resonates on a particular frequency, and that every single particle is connected to and responds to every other particle through these frequencies. Everything is connected, part of the same whole and part of the same connected communication system.

Let's put it in more concrete terms. A cell, or molecule, or atom on one side of the world, say in the United States, can communicate with any other cell, molecule or atom on the other side of the world, say in China, because they are able to signal each other with oscillating frequencies, and this communication happens non-locally and virtually instantaneously. It's like what happens with a radio. There are lots of frequencies out there with people talking on them, or music playing, and all you have to do is tune the dial of the radio to different frequencies to pick them up. Then if you have a transmitter you can talk back to them. That is what our atoms, molecules and cells do. They tune into whatever frequency they have to in order to communicate with other cells all over the world or the universe, in order to accomplish whatever goal they need to accomplish.

Now, people can usually accept the idea that the cells, molecules and atoms in their BODIES communicate with each other so that the body can function the way it's supposed to. The body is a closed system, just like the universe. Just as all the particles in your body communicate so the body can function efficiently, all the particles in the universe do the same. They are all connected. Like one huge body. God's body.

Basically, all energy is God, and there is no such thing as someone being "separated from God". God cannot be separated from his own body. Just as we would if we were sick, God does whatever is necessary to bring the parts of his body that are energetically out of alignment back into their proper relationship to him. If a part of our body isn't functioning correctly because it's frequency is wrong, correcting the frequency disparity often heals the ailment. For instance, all the cells in the human heart must beat at the same time for the heart to function properly. If some of the cells are firing at the wrong time, the person will have a heart attack or some other serious cardiac condition. But there are techniques to help get all the energy of those cells aligned again so the person can be healed. It is the same for God and his relationship to us. Everything in the universe is set up to be self-correcting, including our relationship with him. Everything, from our health, to our finances, to air pollution, to foreign relations, to the movement of the stars and planets....everything is connected, self-correcting, but still within our ability to influence the outcome. Just as God "thought" the whole world into existence, we also can change the course of events by altering the oscillating frequencies which make communications within this system possible, through our thoughts, beliefs, and feelings.

God, who is pure energy, makes all this possible. He set up this network which makes the whole thing happen. The whole universe consists of energy, but it is the intelligent, organized pattern and interaction of this energy which makes it Divine. There is no such thing as chaos, no such thing as randomness....for everything that occurs is caused by some disturbance in the oscillating frequencies somewhere in the world or universe, and it is caused by somebody or something. Either God, or you, or me, or some other organism or thing causes changes in the frequencies which regulate matter and energy, and change happens.

How can we say everything is part of God, and in fact IS God? Because every molecule, atom and particle that exists is connected by this energetic framework of oscillating frequencies which makes communication between each part possible. All molecules, cells, atoms and particles are connected to each other at every moment, and influence each others' activities. It's one big system designed to work together. My brain can communicate with yours, and your brain can communicate with your cat's; my brain can communicate with the cells of my body so they are led to heal themselves, and your brain can help direct healing energy to the bodies of other people who need healing. God uses this same energetic system to communicate to our brains, to our cells, to the raindrops which make up a thunderstorm, to anything.

It's the reason why the stars and planets and their electromagnetic fields DO influence our thoughts, feelings and behavior. Astrology is NOT just some flaky New Age thing. And psychic ability does in fact exist; that's what it's talking about in the Bible when it speaks of spiritual gifts like the gift of Prophecy, or Wisdom, or Knowledge. And the gifts of Healing or Miracles are simply examples of the ability to manipulate this energetic framework of oscillating frequencies so that you can direct it to do what you want. And the spirits of the dead, which are simply the sum total of that person's energetic essence, do exist in another dimensions and can communicate with us, and we with them, if we learn how to tune the dial to their frequency. This puts everything supernatural finally and very definitely in the natural, physical realm. Everything we thought was miraculous and not humanly possible IS possible. And people we used to denounce as witches are simply those who long ago learned to manipulate this energetic framework of oscillating frequencies. They learned to direct their energies through incantations and rituals. Christians learned to direct their energies through prayer. Some people learned to direct their energies through meditations and visualizations. It's all a manipulaton of the same power grid. One way of manipulating it is not better than another. Prayer is not better than an incantation. Both work only because the user directs his focus and energy toward a particular end. And God has set the power grid up so that when we direct our energy, our thoughts and beliefs, our feelings, toward a particular end, it happens.

Whatever technique we use to direct this energy, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that we learn the power of our thoughts, feelings and beliefs. God is Love because love is the most powerful tool at our disposal to redirect this energy. When Love is the reason we direct our energy through our thoughts toward a particular goal, that is the most powerful energy there is, and that goal will come to fruition.

All things work together for good.....Romans 8:28. We may not understand how, but it is always true. We can be confident it is true because everything is part of God and IS God, so there are no mistakes.

say no to christ said...

Anonymous said:"energy- can neither be created or destroyed, what does that tell us of who we are? energy is the force behind everything, nothing is ever destroyed it is only broken down and recycled, what can this tell us of who we are??"

Wow, a christian actually said something I can agree with.

BUT, that gives no support of an afterlife. It does support that when I die my decaying body is turned into food for plants and worms and that my life engery is obsorbed into other life forms. Nothing suppernatural about that. Another problem I have with what you two anonymous christians say is that the life energy is god. Who the hell are you to tell me and others how to discribe that energy and how the hell do you know it is a HIM??? In my oppinion that is just another way for men to glorify themselves and a means to justify their barbaric dominance over women, children, animals and so on. Why can't you just recognize dark energy(life energy) for what it is and not try to deify it and blow it up to a persona that wants and needs our worship and prayers??? I highly doubt that the life force energy needs nor wants our prayers and worship. I don't think it gives two shits about us, its only purpose in life is to recycle energy, not answer prayers.


And how dare you two assume that just because atheists do not call life energy "god" that we do not have a sense of spirituallity, and that we do not recognize that all life is connected. On the contrary I think atheists have a higher sense of spirituality and connectedness to the world. Unlike most christians, most atheists do not seperate themselves from the natural world and realize that we are only a tiny spec of stardust in this vast universe. We need no god to make us feel special nor do we need to feel special to have a fullfilling life. Atheists find much pleasure in the natural world for what it is and I am all too happy to be a part of it.

Now please stop trying to force YOUR view of what god is down our throats. Its just rude!


Amy

hlp said...

exactly your beliefs are just a belief as is all beliefs are, atleast i got my point across, and when i say my god is a male i also call her a she, so why do you stress over such little things such as that can you not see how there is male and female in your world? that should tell you that the life force is both but none all at once, can you really label an eternal force as this or that, eternal has no limits to what can be formed, just observe your dreams and the creativeness of hummanity, how they can make something out of nothing, in my dreams i can fly and do anything i so please and my mind views it as real, dreams are apart of who we are also and to try and label them as nothing more is silly because who is to say that is us but that is not, all are apart of our existence you cant just pick and chooe as you so please, that is the reason there is a separate world is because most try and pick and choose what is real and what is not, really whose to say what is and what isnt, to one person there dreams are just as real as the physical world with exception of there own laws, to another a dream is the minds imagination and nothing more.. well if that is so there still apart of our existence therefore it is as real as anything elese.

you mention prayer, well some dont beleive and that is fine for whoever doesnt believe cant expect to recieve proof because there heart is programmed already, to a believer in prayer they recieve there proof enough or else they would find something other then prayer to do, you never ask yourseld how someone can believe in something that is not real, well the answer is to the person who is praying it is real, this whole blog is based on proving how others are wrong, if there is so much wrong then why is it right for them?? your beliefs are real also through your eyes because you believe it exist and it does your heart is set.. you say why dont you stop forcing your beliefs on us, well my beliefs are that all should be aware of there true existence, one mans fate is not the same as anothers, i believe your consciousness is and will create your experience so whatever you so believe will be created from the thoughts into form, just life anyone who lives it starts 1st in the mind, building a plane started 1st in the mind then it was written down, everything starts from the thoughts. so to all you jesus haters who is this jesus person that you so hate, how can you hate someone who is not real to you, you cant so what is the point you'd think there be other things to focus you energy on other then making a mockery over a man you dont believe...
one more thing if you dont want to hear others views then its a good idea not to create a blog on something that has anything to do with others beliefs as wrong....

say no to christ said...

LOL, Now please explain to me how Jesus fits into your belief system. If god is the life energy and that energy is both male and female, then what the fuck is Jesus? Why do you even need a mythical figure in your belief system and a male one at that?

See this is where christians and I really butt heads, cuz there is no archaeolgical nor historical nor the smallest bit of evidence to suggest that a god-man, preacher, or anyother important figure named Jesus ever existed. Have you ever bothered to look into the origins of this Jesus you worship, which by the way is a MALE deity that is oh so important to you christians? And I'm sure you already know how I feel about the worship of male deities, but incase you missed it....it is a way for men to glorify the male aspect and demean the female and anything else that isnt human and male. And I say that about any religion that follows the path of male deities.And for the record male dominance is not biological. In fact very few species on this planet are male dominated and the few that are, there is very strong evidence to support that drought, famine and overpopulation are what causes such an unnatural state.
Anyway, back to my point...I don't give a flying rats ass what you call life enegy or that you pray to it. The problem I have is that chistians insist on forcing their beliefs, their morals and political agendas on us all. You claim not to be trying to force us to except your definition of life energy and that some jesus dude was the source of all life energy, but you just don't want us to talk about how it is impossible and just plain absurd? Yet, christian go on and on about how science is wrong and can't answer all the questions in life like Jesus can. Now that just reeks of double standards. And that whole double standard thing doesnt sit well with me. And not only that, I also don't like when people are being munipulated and lied to. Religion and jesus are political tools to minupulate that masses and its wrong! You know, you will never be able to dress religion up and pass it off as natural when the very root of it is unnatural through and through.

Amy

Drunken Tune said...

hlp, truth is air to the soul, and anony,

Why can't people learn to form a cohesive argument?

Paragraphs? Punctuation? The comments here were a power drill to my skull: grating, abrasive, and I left with my brains leaking out of my ears. Flunk out of community college, anyone?

sheep said...

You miss the point that there is no evidence that a god does not exist either.

Belief is exactly that; just beliefs; no evidence; something that is hoped for.

My beliefs in jesus is beyond the physical portrit of an historical figure, it is based on the principle of the teachings of love and unity that is attracting.

I do not force my beliefs on anyone, I only express myself to others who promote a challenge, openly and invites anyones comments to express there views. So why do you persue constant forbiddon me to communicate on this blog?

And I type ignorant because I want to.....

say no to christ said...

Sheep

You can't prove what doesnt exist. No one believes there is a flying spaghetti monster and you cant prove that it doesnt exist either.

And no one said you couldn't express your views here, but when you say science is wrong and that we shouldnt question religious beliefs, you better be ready to defend your stance! Christianity has only progressed from the well deserved critisism it has recieved. Christians gloat about how they are less violent than their musslim counter parts and yet they ignore that not so long ago they were just as violent. Had it not been for the works of many atheists and humanitarians who had the nerve to question the religious, christianity wouldn't be the more progressive religion that we know today.

So, don't think for one minute you can minipulate and try to guilt trip me into backing down and not questioning what I know to be blantant lies. It just wont happen. :)

Amy

sheep said...

Amy, I never said science was wrong, I only said that they weren't finished with there discoveries so why make the final answer be this or that...

I never try and guilt trip anyone, I have my views as do you, and i respect your views. If I ever made a statement down casting an atheist i am sorry, I just see how most atheiest seem to only want to proove to the world that there is no god. There is no physical proof in a god if your in disbelief. I know I can't convert an atheist because ones mind is set and anything that apposes that belief that has been programmed in the mind is impossible unless the person is willing to expand there view..
science never proved that god doesn't exist, they never proved that he did also, just like someone who believes in evolution, it is nomore then a belief unless you yourself has seen a monkey evolve into a man with your very own eyes. evenso evolution is only a theory, it may have strong evidence but it is lacking key evidence that would make it a law or a fact of its existence..
I only want the atheiest to know and understand there beliefs are not proven also, so why downcast a believer, is that love that you so much speak about?

Christians that killed people and did evil in the name of jesus were not following the teachings of jesus, to blame jesus or any other christan is really stupid, the teachings of jesus was all about love and sacrifice. The christians that did such evil deeds were not of the teachings of jesus. To me jesus is love, he stood of for love and the love of good until his death, he was killed for his beliefs, to me jesus is my savior not only because he died for man kind but because he showed a lost world filled with hate and greed that love and peace is the only thing that will ever set you free. You say how can a god let babies die, well lets think of this, some babies die because of the abuse of humanities free will to do as they please (i.e. a murder), the other reason is from nature, which is us also, you can not say that the world is not effected by humanity, not only do we abuse our planet but we blame each other for it, or we just turn our heads so not to look at it. we are from the earth and we are conscience beings do you not think the earth and universe is conscience also?? The horrible way we treat ourselves and our planet does anyone really believe it will take care of us?

Another subject prayer, I believe in prayer, but I also believe in experience and purpose, I don't think that someone is bad if there prayers aren't answered, i onl believe that that person has a bigger purpose, beyond the one can undestand, people think that life is just awful yet they hate to see when family or someone close to them dies, death or trasformation (because it is proven that to decay is to break down and take other form) it is a natural thing, it happens to all of us and it shouldn't be so bad as people say it is. I am comfortable with death because it is natural, and life would adventually get boring and I would be ready to move on.

I'll I can say is you speak of how loving people of your beliefs are, well I don't doubt it, I know there are loving atheist as well as mean ones, there are the same in every group, there is love and acceptence and there is mean critical ones. If you are loving then you should know how important jesus is to a christian, as buddah is to a buddist, so why downcast them, what is the point.

man is a living conscience being from the earth and the earth was created from the eternal energy, because in the beginning there wasn't nothing, there was no physical matter, but there was something and that is energy inwhich all things were emerged from, what is all hidden in that energy, well a small clue is what is known so far is all within the energy, for what is known that has not been revealed?

our dreams they seem so real yet some say they are nothing more then the brain, or what about all those people who say they visited other worlds, other planes of existence such as the astral plane, well some people say those people are delusional, they can't see that all things are apart of who we are, we was once a star floating in space, that star died out or made a trasformation so to make our galaxy, the star had to die before is could become something so great. everything that was in that star is still present today and will forever be..

If you can't understand that then name one person who can prove that I am conscience and aware at this very moment, consciousness can not be proven, only to the beholder of it, just like the mind of a cat I can observe its brain and its movements and so on, but I can never be the cat, I can't experience a life as a cat, so it is unknown, and it is something noone can prove what its like..

There are many things that can't be proven like my thoughts at any moment, but we know its real.

I will never be so quick to judge our existence and its meaning.

say no to christ said...

Sheep said: "I know I can't convert an atheist because ones mind is set and anything that apposes that belief that has been programmed in the mind is impossible unless the person is willing to expand there view"
------

You seem to think that all atheist became atheists because someone indoctrinated us. You are way off there. Most atheists used to be christians. I know I was and so was Aaron and most of the other atheists that post here. I only know of one atheist that posts here that wasnt raised with religion and I would hardly say that he was programmed to be an atheist. We are all born atheist. Isnt it true that you have to teach children about god, the bible and his son?? Children are not born knowing all about god or any other god for that matter. SO, it appears you are the one who has been programmed, not I. I have been deprogrammed, by my own doing. I chose to educate myself. I never ever settle for what others tell me, especially when they don't really know the truth. It appears you haven't expanded your mind cuz you stop looking for the answers when you say "OK, science doesnt have all the answers yet, so I'll just say god did it." I'm not going to ever stop looking for the truth. And another thing my views change with science, when science finds better answers and it always does, my views about things change as well.
-------

Sheep said: "science never proved that god doesn't exist, they never proved that he did also, just like someone who believes in evolution, it is nomore then a belief unless you yourself has seen a monkey evolve into a man with your very own eyes."
------

See, this is where you are dead wrong. You don't understand evolution and how it works and it is not just a theory. evolution is a fact, there are theories within evolution, because no one can go back to the begining of life and say exactly how is began. However there have been scientist who have replicated how simple organisms began and became more complex, in a dish. And further more evolution has been seen in all species to include our own and so called "macroevolution" has been seen in plants. Of course you are not going to see a cat "macroevolve" into a dog because they are too complex a species. It took millions of years of evolution for a dog to become a dog and a cat to become a cat from its common ancestor, a weasle like animal. BUT, even today you can look at both cats and dogs and see their common ancestry even down to the DNA. You can also trace the DNA all the way back to their common ancestry. So don't give me that line of BS about being closed minded! I am very open minded. I am even open minded to some psychic stuff, but I believe there is always a natural scientific answer. I do know there are some studies in psychics and brain waves and that they may have higher levels of mangnents in their brains that is picking up on all the magnetic energy around them. I work with dogs and I realize that dogs and most animals have some abilities that appear to be "psychic", but when push comes to shove it is always something that can be explained by the magnets in their brains and the megnetic energies in the atmosphere. No one knows for sure how the magnetic energies are being read by them, maybe a mental picture or an audio, we dont know yet, but we arent giving up and saying its god. And for the record, I believe there are people who may have some "psychic" abilities much like animals, after all we are animals and a product of nature as well. BUT, I do NOT believe god is the answer! You can't prove what doesnt exist and saying there is a god, cause you cant prove there isnt, is just childish and stupid and you might as well believe in the flying spaghetti monster. If you want to understand some of my views on conscience then click the link.http://www.orgonelab.org/saharasia.htm
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Sheep said: "I only want the atheiest to know and understand there beliefs are not proven also, so why downcast a believer, is that love that you so much speak about?"
----

I may only be a canine psychologist, but even I can spot these imfamous guilt trips you christians love to throw at us. LOl
Love has nothing to do with it dude. You christians throw love around so carlessly, no wonder christians have a higher divorce rate than atheists and agnostics. I do however respect you as a human and feel it is very important that you understand evolution cuz your god beliefs have a very detrimental dominoes effect on society. The studies show that the more society accepts evolution the less violent and more cooperative society becomes.
----
Sheep said: "people think that life is just awful yet they hate to see when family or someone close to them dies, death or trasformation (because it is proven that to decay is to break down and take other form) it is a natural thing, it happens to all of us and it shouldn't be so bad as people say it is."
------
I don't know the people you know, but the only people I know who are afraid of death are christians. I am completely comfortable with death and what happens after death. That is why I charish life and live it to the fullest, cuz when death comes, its final. My energy moves on, but the energy that moves on becomes other things and when you are something else you only think like and know how to be like that something else. If my energy moves on to become a tree, I would no longer have a human brain, therefore I would only know how to think and be like a tree.
With that said, I have heard and read a little about cell memory, but I don't know enough about to form an oppinion yet.
----
Sheep said: "I'll I can say is you speak of how loving people of your beliefs are, well I don't doubt it, I know there are loving atheist as well as mean ones, there are the same in every group, there is love and acceptence and there is mean critical ones. If you are loving then you should know how important jesus is to a christian, as buddah is to a buddist, so why downcast them, what is the point."
----
Because they are lies and hurt more people than they help. Do you know how many people die in the name of Jesus, allah, god and not so much buddha any more? Millions apon millions and I wont keep my big mouth shut till people wake the fuck up. There is no god and jesus and buddha never even existed. Lies and myths of supernatural beings, only stops the brain from functioning to its fullest ability. It stops the mind from clear rational and critical thinking. And the rest of your post is proof of that.
-----

Amy

say no to christ said...

Sheep

Here is a great site about life energy and how important it is to not confuse it with mysticism and religious ideology.

http://www.aetherometry.com/EAintro_specter.html

Anonymous said...

say no to christ, you say no why because you believe it is a fariy tale, come on now everything is unless it is seen with the eyes, you reject jesus because there were no cameras back in the day, jesus is real to me and I never heard him say to me that he wants me to die for him, infact he said he died for me, those people who died and did evil in his name were blind, and even you with your judgement upon a whole race of people for shit I didn't do, I didn't do any of that shit plus crap you are proclaiming up there, you obviously believe in an afterlife because you said you could become a tree, well thats a new life is it not, a tree is still living life in its own way, so you are confused, say no to jesus but believe that when you die you become a fucking tree, well lets see would I rather have hope in a paradise where everything I ever wanted in life shall come to pass, or should I have hope in being a got damn fucking tree??? let me give ya a hint, its not a tree.
The u.s.a. is sending men over there to die in the name of freedom, no religion intended, what should we say about that shit, i ain't fighting a war, I never killed in the name of jesus or died, I never collected peoples income for jesus, you keep on saying the same shit about christians but it's crap because it's really just racist crap.
Important not to mix energy with religion, my my my who is this person, how can you separate us from our life force, all that is was once without form in the eternal flow of energy, energy is everything and everything that is known is from that energy including someones beliefs, so why always try and separate everything, everything will soon return to it's natural state of energy, all appearences will be sent back home to its natual state only to create new and improved realities. The answer to your approach on becoming a tree, well that guys theory once again is only a fucking theory, it is not a law, there are probably more people who seen and experienced an afterlife then people who sit around thinking about what it should be like after death.
Silly girl you separate the world from the mind and its fucntions, you see the outside as different from the inside, if you really understood yourself then you would know that anything that man has created first started in the mind then it was blue printed then it was created from material matter. That alone should give you some truth to who we are, creation is us including our orgins. Energy is both mind and body how can you say they are different by placeing a lable upon them, saying the mind is not real it can not be proven, but the world in which we live is real because there is evidence. Well who can settle for that crap, I know that the world is what we share with each other; a shared universe, the mind is our own private world. They are both real and both are one when returned to its natural state.
The world within is only vivid in the dream state and another state which can only happen when one is asleep and aware at the same time.

angelsdepart said...

Paul Quillman said: I think that you are ascociating me with a theological camp (or a compilation of various camps) that I simply do not belong to. I am conservative Presbyterian (aka Reformed). I subscribe to the Westminser Confessions of Faith as an accurate reflection of Biblical theology. I agree with much of John Calvin, Martin Luther, Thomas Chalmers, Augustine of Hippo and RC Sproul among a long list of others.

Dude are you seriously aligning yourself with the reformers as a defense? Calvin was a murderer. He called for the death of Miguel Servetus in 1553 for simply disagreeing with his philosophy. Augustine was a woman hater with homosexual tendencies. Here is a quote from him:

“I don't see what sort of help woman was created to provide man with, if one excludes procreation. If woman is not given to man for help in bearing children, for what help could she be? To till the earth together? If help were needed for that, man would have been a better help for man. The same goes for comfort in solitude. How much more pleasure is it for life and conversation when two friends live together than when a man and a woman cohabitate?”

and Luther was the worst of them all. His pamphlet titled "against the murderous peasants resulted in the muder of over 100,000 peasants in Germany which at the time was considered one of the worst massacres ever. Luther was also insane. He believed that God was so powerful in him that his shit could cast out the devil. Here is my favorite quote from Luther

"I have shit in my pants, and you can hang them around your neck and wipe your mouth with it."

Luther really felt that God was so powerful in him that he could drive the devil away with a single fart. LOL

When philosophy is the concern the character of the material must be validated. None of the reformers were even decent human beings. Thier works were written for self empowerment! Get your history straight before you side with evil. Oh wait, I forgot, your a Christian, siding with evil is what you do. Good luck with that!