Monday, August 31, 2009

Kosher Milk and Darwinism

Zvi Shkedi, an observant superstitionist and creationist of the Jewish variety, has posted a knol about evolution, and boy is it a bad one.

I believe I came up with a fair offer in response to his knol. I left this comment for him to read:

A knol about evolution, written by an observant Jew who has previously posted a knol about kosher milk. In that kosher milk knol, the first sentence says, "Only milk that was milked in the presence of a supervising Jew is kosher."

Zvi Shkedi believes that the nearby presence of a human who happens to practice one particular brand of magic/superstition (Judaism) will somehow affect that milk's composition.

I'm wondering if Zvi Shkedi can devise an experiment to distinguish kosher milk from non-kosher milk. Perhaps some chemical analysis? Or would rune stones of some type have to be consulted?

Perhaps enough bobbing of one's head back and forth in front of an ancient stone wall could be the mechanism by which the kosher milk could be distinguished from its non-kosher heathen milky peers?

The reason I bring this up is this: If Zve Shkedi succeeds in quantifying, testing, and demonstrating falsifiability of his kosher milk assertions, then I will renounce my atheism, convert to his particular brand of Jewish superstition immediately, believe every word he wrote in this article, and implore all my fellow Darwinist-atheists to follow suit.

MAZEL TOV!

12 comments:

david rickel said...

I know next to nothing about "kosher". Is the idea behind kosher milk to give milk some magical properties, or is it to make sure that the cows giving the milk are treated reasonably?

Aaron Kinney said...

Kosher laws are basically rules to make sure that Jews adhere to the arbitrary food rules found in the Torah.

Back when it was written, it was taken as good healthy dietary practice. Today, of course, we know that it's nothing more than pseudo-science from quack mystics with little to no health value. But Jews still follow Kosher laws as if they were the latest health findings from the most respected food organization in the world.

david rickel said...

Thanks. I had gathered (probably from a Monty Pyton skit) that kosher meat had to be killed in a certain way; I was wondering if kosher milk had to be milked in a certain way. I see that that's not the case.

Anonymous said...

Your comment, "Zvi Shkedi believes that the nearby presence of a human who happens to practice one particular brand of magic/superstition (Judaism) will somehow affect that milk's composition," indicates that you have no idea what you're talking about and apparently don't care. You just want to attack without regard for the facts.

I am a lifelong Catholic but even I know that Jews do not believe there is any difference between the composition of kosher milk and non-kosher milk. Jews who observe the kosher laws do so because they believe those laws enable them to obey God's rules for them which were part of the Covenant He made with them. Rather than try to elaborate on my gentile understanding of kosher I spent a few seconds with Google and came up with various Jewish explanations, including this one:
http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Marty Helgesen

Anonymous said...

Ignorance is bliss. Kosher has nothing to do with health or composition. Kosher food is food which is permissible to be consumed in compliance with a religious code. Kosher milk is milk which comes from a kosher animal. (Cows and goats are kosher. Pigs are not kosher.)

The presence of a supervisor is necessary to make sure that the milk comes only from a kosher animal, and, that no non-kosher milk is mixed in. It is as simple as that. There is no magic involved.

Yes, the presence of the supervisor does affect the composition of the milk, by making sure that it does not contain non-kosher milk mixed in.

Now, let's see how Aaron Kinney keeps his promise...

Eliahu said...

It looks like you owe Dr. Shkedi an apology. If I were him, I would sue you for slander.

Anonymous said...

Kosher...bah.

What would like to eat is the
heart of an atheist ripped from
his/her body and drink his/her blood
from his/her skull!

I wnat to spill atheist blood, i want
to rip their throats and defile their
corpses!

Aaron Kinney said...

Re: Anonymous,

You said:

Ignorance is bliss. Kosher has nothing to do with health or composition. Kosher food is food which is permissible to be consumed in compliance with a religious code. Kosher milk is milk which comes from a kosher animal. (Cows and goats are kosher. Pigs are not kosher.)

So which is it? Does kosher have to do with the composition of the milk or not? Cow and goat milk are composed differently than pig milk. And why does cow or goat milk need to be harvested under the supervision of a Rabbi, and nobody else? Can only Rabbis differentiate between cow, goats, and pigs? And if so, how do they do it? IS the means visual, olfactory, or other?

Ignorance sure IS bliss, isn't it, Anonymous?

And yes, I am keeping my promise still. I'm waiting for the good rabbi to let me know his methods of differentiating the milk.

Zvi said...

What is so difficult to understand here? A trusted Rabbi needs to observe the process and make sure that only a kosher animal is milked. The method is simple - observation. Once the milk has been obtained, it needs to be supervised (again, only by a trusted Rabbi) to prevent fraud, until it is filled into a sealed container. It does not take an IQ of 200 to understand something that simple.

You ask: "Can only Rabbis differentiate between cow, goats, and pigs?" Anyone can differentiate, but only a trusted Rabbi can be trusted to care about the difference and make sure that there is no fraud. You could also differentiate, but since you do not care about the difference, I would not be willing to take your word for it.

Aaron Kinney said...

Zvi,

What is so hard to understand here? Nothing at all. I understand it perfectly, in the same way that I understand why a brick to the head gives a person brain damage. What this is here, is not me lamenting my inability to understand the process and asking for clarification, but instead I am wrapping my contempt and ridicule of the kosher milk process in pointed questions and a generally derisive tone.

Observation... yes of course. And we can only trust a Rabbi to observe the milk production, because a dairy farmer getting paid to do the same is just not trustworthy. Those heathen farmers should watch their backs when the Rabbi is in da house!

What about a practicing Jew who is not a Rabbi? Are they trustworthy enough to make sure that the milk-squirting -teat in question is affixed to a cow and not a pig? Or does it take years of study at a Rabbinical school to learn these highly specialized animal-identification skills?

Shall I go on with more ridiculous questions that allude to the silliness and backwardness of the entire kosher process? Will you continue to answer them if I do so? Do you still not get that these questions are traps which, when you answer them, open the kosher process up to further ridicule? Do question marks have some kind of magical power over you that compels you to give a literal response? Do question marks make it impossible for you to read between the lines?

?????????????????????????? The power of the question mark compels you! The power of the question mark compels you!

Zvi said...

Insults are the best compliment an author can receive. They show that nothing intelligent can be said against the subject matter. Thank you for the compliments.

FeepingCreature said...

Speaking as an Atheist, this unfounded polemic against a simple WoT setup based on trustworthy conditioning that seems to work rather well in practice is unbecoming of rational people.

Please, concentrate on attacking the rampant religion-induced stupidity loose in the world today, not a harmless cultural custom that seems to be procreating quite well as memes go. (Envious?)