Tuesday, March 11, 2008

Ballsy-Mitzvah

This kid is badass.

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Au-seti said...

I am writing this because I am in dire need of some advice from my fellow Atheists.
My husband and I have both taken the long, hard track out of Christianity and into Atheism. My husband is from Ukraine and was ten when the Soviet Union fell apart; he took up, and then left Christianity when he arrived in the US at 16. I had grown up with a father who could easily replace Pat Robertson as the premier hard headed evangelical Christian. We both view religion as inherently evil, a malignant force comparable only to HIV in its ability to replicate and destroy.
I am due to have a child, a girl, on April tenth. Recently my father has started on this “I am going to save your soul” agenda. The first thing he did was to ask me if I was going to get my baby baptized. I told him that I was not and he responded “so you’re not going to give her a choice?” Every time I have encountered him since he has brought up some argument contrived to somehow convince me that god exists. The problem is that while he expects me to listen to his reasoning he does not listen to mine. Just recently when I attempted to counter his “irreducible complexity” argument he told me that what I was saying was bullshit. On top of all of this he REFUSES to call my daughter-to-be by the full name we have given her, Lilith, because “it’s demonic.”
I would –LOVE- to give him an ultimatum, something along the lines of “ether you respect my decisions regarding religion or you will not be allowed to see your granddaughter” but unfortunately I am not in the position to do so. My husband and I are both college students and need all of the help that we can get. In addition to this I had lost all of my grandparents by the time I was eight years old and I feel that the experience of having grandparents is an important one. My mother is a very intelligent, very verbose woman who speaks the most proper English and will be a much needed counter to the Russian-only environment of my husband’s family.
My biggest fear is that my daughter will come home one day at a very young age wanting to be “saved” because my dad told her about hell and how she’s going to go there if she’s not. Are there any suggestions out there on this matter? Anyone who went through a similar experience? Any and every suggestion is vastly appreciated.
Thank you much
Au-Seti

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JJR said...

Au-seti,

You're kind of thread-jacking here, but since the comment after yours is spam, I figure what the heck, I'll answer.

I don't know if Unitarian Universalist congregations actually do a Baptism ceremony or not, but if you could find one willing, that would be a fair compromise. Most UU's are vaguely theistic (in a Deist kind of way) but there are more than a few atheists and agnostics who attend for the social justice gospel component exclusively...if your Dad doesn't look into it too closely, you might appease him with a UU ceremony. Maybe not, but I'd try that first.

It's ironic that he says "so you're not giving your daughter a choice?" re: Baptism. A lot of Xtian congregations disallow infant Baptism anyway since the child doesn't have any way of consciously understanding the ceremony or what it implicitly means. Maybe since the Pope gave up on Limbo it's coming back into vogue, who knows.

Maybe your Dad could call your daughter by her middle name.

I understand what it means to be a poor (graduate) student and at the financial mercy of overbearing parents--it definitely sucks.

If your dad is in a position to financially punish you for not giving your daughter a Baptism as he thinks is fit (i.e. rejects UU's as valid), it's an indignity you may have to endure for the sake of peace and financial well being...after all, it's just a sprinkle of water and some mumbo jumbo. You don't even have to tell your daughter about it in later life--she probably won't remember it anyway.

Much like the children of Christians, try as you might, you can't shield them from the real world forever, and it's better they get the facts from you than someone else. Dan Barker has some excellent books out about Freethought parenting, and even children's books from an atheist point of view. You could explain that while it's natural for children to make up imaginary friends, sometimes Adults make one up they call "God", but it's still just pretend.

I had the good fortune to have a Natural Sciences teacher for a Dad, and my Dad and I watched COSMOS together when I was growing up...I never could take religion seriously and eventually stopped attending our moderately liberal Presbyterian church. I only found out about the likes of Pat Robertson, et. al. when I was a smart-ass, horny teenager and my reaction was intensely hostile to them, especially because of their noxious views on premarital sex and their rigid anti-abortion stance.

Ironically, I did go through confirmation in the Presbyterian church when I was about 12-13 (roughly same age as most Bar Mitzvah'ed boys in Jewish families), only I lied my ass off and just recited what was expected of me, but didn't believe a word of it. About a year later I was done with anything Church related forever.

Good luck and I hope you do what's best for your family and especially your daughter.

breakerslion said...

That kid rocks!

Hava Magilla
hava gorilla
hava Magilla gorilla fasale!

Hey!

Now, for the thread above:

Tell your dad it's far more blasphemous to name a kid Jesus, even if you insist on pronouncing it Hay-soos. Point out all those boys named "Dick". Ask him if everyone who named a daughter "Mary" was hoping for a pregnant teenage "virgin". Tell him if he doesn't get over it, you're going to name your next male child "Adolph". Ask him why if it's such a big deal to name a child "Lilith", it's the ones named "Jamal" that seem to get the shitty end of the stick, statistically speaking. Ask him how he got to be such a superstitious ninny if the god he believes in is supposed to know a person by their soul, not their name. If he thinks your answer to "Irreducible Complexity" is bullshit, ask him why the all-powerful creator of everything couldn't do better than throwing a bunch of frogs, bugs and child-murder at the Egyptians when he was trying to spring the Hebrew slaves.

TastyPaper said...

I saw this video on Jewish Atheist, what an awesome kid, not to mention a very forgiving audience.

genexs said...

The kid is kewl, but I'd like to chime in on Au-Seti's (heh!) question. First off, I think the suggestions the atheists have made are wimpy.

Tell grandpappy that you've seen the light, and that you want to rededicate your marriage, and invite the dribbling fool. Then drag the him to a Pagan Handfasting! Cast a circle and Invoke Pan, Set, Cybele, and Hecate (the Great Mother). As choking insence fills the room, the flame of the caldren grow highter, and everyone chants and strips off their clothes...jump the broomstick. You would then be pronounced 'man and wife', again!
Either this will kill him outright, or he'll gouge his eyes out with flaming sticks. Whatever, at least you'd be done with him. Not only that, but you'll instill some good family values in Lilith (great name, btw). Heck, I'd like to perform the handfasting myself!

warm regards,
Gene