Thursday, October 26, 2006

The Pope Finally Says Something True

The Pope recently declared that modern western culture is against religion. Looks like he finally got the wire. Unfortunately, he had to do lots of projecting:

Verona, Italy- Modern Western culture is unable to dialogue with religion and cannot answer fundamental questions about the meaning of life, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday.


He has it exactly backwards. In reality, it is ancient religion that cannot answer fundamental questions about the meaning of life and is unable to dialogue with modern culture. But I doubt he would ever figure that one out.

He continued to bitch:

Benedict said the West was witnessing "a new wave of Enlightenment and secularism, in which only that which can be tested and calculated is considered rationally valid, and in which individual freedom is erected as a fundamental value to which everything else is subordinated.

"In this way, God is excluded from culture and public life", he said.


Benedict laments it, while modern western society celebrates it. Well it looks like this party isn't for you, Popey. Go home. But wait, he has one more projection to throw:

"It is not difficult to see how this type of culture represents a radical and profound separation not only from Christianity but more generally from the religious and moral traditions of humanity," he said.


This statement should say, "...from the religious, immoral traditions of humanity." Because only a fact-based, Godless moral framework can be considered "moral."

The Pope doesn't realize that morality cannot be based on God's rules. That is because he's been brainwashing himself with crappy books his whole life.


Oh well. This most recent whining from the Pope is a good thing, to be sure. Popes have been bitching about secularization of western society for a while now, and Benedict is merely carrying the torch of lamentations while he watches his pews, and more importantly, his donations, wither away uncontrollably. It gets even worse when he looks at the youth component of his faithful: every year since 2003 or so, the Catholic Church's "World Youth Day" breaks a new record for smallest attendance yet.

23 comments:

BlackSun said...

Well, Bennie's not getting any younger. Unfortunately, I think they'd sooner be annointing Dawkins as a cardinal than any future pope would admit morality comes from human civilization.

Drunken Tune said...

With any progress in the world, there's always a crazy loon shouting it down: American preachers denounced the lightning rod; the Pope's still against condom use; etc. This has been happening for a while, and the nutty side is inherently conservative, wanting to retain the status quo with regards to power and knowledge. If the Pope had his way, we'd be living in mud huts and wearing grass skirts, bowing towards Rome every morning and evening.

If I could go back in time, I'd abort the Pope.

Oh, and Catholic priests touch underage boys and girls in their naughty place. So much for "World Youth Day."

bernarda said...

Pope Ratzo is out of touch. We learned the meaning of life from Monty Python.

Aaron Kinney said...

Preachers fought against LIGHTNING RODS?!?!?!?!

Jesus Christ!

What, did they think we were tempting Zeus? Holy fuck! I know that preachers tend to fight against EVERY technological advancement that comes out, but this is ridiculous.

That little factoid makes me even more determined to fight religion with all my energy. This mental virus, this plague on mankind must be eradicated.

say no to christ said...

Well, I'm glad people are wising up and not sending their kids off to be molested, but as long as there are still idiots out there that are sending their kids, our work is NOT done. I'm with you Mr. Kenny!!



Amy

olly said...

@Aaron: Just as a footnote for Drunken Tune, here's some reading material that ought to get you steaming bro:

Christian Churches Verses The Lighting Rod

I remember reading this with a vague feeling of disassociation with reality... which is I suppose what religion is going for, so it makes sense lol.

-olly

Aaron Kinney said...

Jesus Christ! I would love to hear some Christians of today explain whether or not t hey believe the lightning rod superstitious religious crap, and if not, why?

Why do Christians today look at lightning like a scientist and yet believe in virgin births? They are so stupid.

Hallq said...

Does it really make sense to pay as much attention to the pope as we do? In theory, he speaks for a billion Catholics. In practice, he speaks only for the sort of Catholic priest that previous popes have liked enough to appoint cardinal. Your average Catholic, at least in a Western country, does not view the pope or the church higher ups in general as particularly authoritative.

Drunken Tune said...

Well, for one, his Popishness wears a very large hat and yells at people for not prostrating themselves before his sky-god. And he’s a Hitler Youth. And he also has a lot of money taken from the poor over the centuries. It's shooting ghosts in a barrel, it is.

aaron kinney,
The same goes for Christians that claim that all of Genesis is an allegory or a myth. They honestly don't think that through for more than a few seconds, because then by their own logic, there's no Original Sin, and Jesus died for... uh... nothing, I guess.

Anonymous said...

Forget the Pope..he is not important..what is important is the deeper meaning of The Bible and Christianity in general, which is something that everyone is ignoring. You do not need leaders to tell you how to believe or to complain about how your civilization is living..according to the Bible Jesus Christ died for you and paid the ultimate price so that you might have salvation at the hands of the Almighty God DIRECTLY....its called prayer. You do not need a pope...but you do need Jesus Christ..oh and science has proven Jesus at least existed and was crucified..plus alot of sites in the Bible That are described and are told where they are located....science people have found...no one should expect every word of THe Bible to be be perfectly accurate...Humans wrote it and humans have changed soem things here and there..but the ESSENTIAL message remains the same.and that is Jesus's tesachings and the fact that he paid the price for you...and if God is all powerful could he not impregnate a virgin.If he could create the whole universe!! How small atask this must have been...Humans are not perfect neither is anything we could create even science to believe the opposite is absurd.

ryan maddox said...

who are "science people"? lol

Maybe just maybe your definition of God is impossble. Or maybe your God is a delusional, egotistical, mass murdering fucked up psychopath. Maybe I do not deserve eternal torture. Oh, and maybe the afterlife is evil.

There are a lot of reasons to reject the "deeper meaning" of the Bible and Christianity, those are only a couple.

Keep spreading your ideology of submission and punishment.

Drunken Tune said...

No one ... listens to a lunatic ... that types IN ALL CAPS ... AS IF HE IS YELLING AT SOMEONE.

anony,

Please don't pray for anyone. "Science people" have shown that prayer is a curse. Please do not pray to your invisible friend. You're living in a diluted fantasy. And no scientist has shown that the cruci-fiction took place, or that Jesus existed. That is, unless you've got some proof stashed under a rock somewhere.

Classic brainwashing, we have here.

Aaron Kinney said...

Anonymous,

Thanks for stopping by! You said:

Forget the Pope..he is not important..what is important is the deeper meaning of The Bible and Christianity in general, which is something that everyone is ignoring.

And rightfully so, I might add, since the "deeper meaning" of The Bible and Christianity is all hogwash and mind control.

You do not need leaders to tell you how to believe or to complain about how your civilization is living..according to the Bible Jesus Christ died for you and paid the ultimate price so that you might have salvation at the hands of the Almighty God DIRECTLY....its called prayer.

Why is salvation needed anyway? Because of some fruit that your ancestors allegedly ate?

You do not need a pope...but you do need Jesus Christ..oh and science has proven Jesus at least existed and was crucified..

Actually science has proven the opposite. The problem with your statement, I think, is that you are merely parroting the empty claims that your local preacher has stated, not the actual claims of actual scientists. However, if you would like to present some links to some scientific research papers or peer reviewed articles that scientifically prove Jesus' existence and resurrection, I would love to see them.

plus alot of sites in the Bible That are described and are told where they are located....

What, like Jerusalem? Big whoop there. Here is a more important question: does the Bible describe places that actually exist anywhere outside of the Middle East and Egypt? Maybe Greenland, or Alaska, or Antarctica, or even South America?

science people have found...no one should expect every word of THe Bible to be be perfectly accurate...

What about the "words" in the Bible that describe a creator God? Or the part about original sin? Or the part about a virgin birth? Or the part about a 3 day old dead body reanimating?

Humans wrote it and humans have changed soem things here and there..but the ESSENTIAL message remains the same.

The essential message is that of a snake oil salesman. They convince you that you have a problem (which is bullshit), and they they sell you the alleged cure (which is also bullshit). This essential message, as you stated, most certainly remains the same.

and that is Jesus's tesachings and the fact that he paid the price for you...

Why did I need to "pay a price" anyway? And how could Jesus have paid the price for me? Did the price I have to pay involve being crucified, then being dead for 3 days and eventually going up to heaven, or was my price something other than that?

and if God is all powerful could he not impregnate a virgin.

I suppose he could. But couldnt he also not give me original sin in the first place? Could he not have created a perfect garden witout a pure evil snake inhabiting it? Could he not have created an inerrant Bible?

If he could create the whole universe!! How small atask this must have been...Humans are not perfect neither is anything we could create even science to believe the opposite is absurd.

Quick pointer for you: be careful with run on sentences. Its kind of hard to understand you, although I think I can decipher your writings.

So you think science is wrong? Big surprise there. Science once said that the Earth is round... well, the church didnt like that. Science once said that we revolve around the sun... well, the church didnt like that either. Science once said that the Earth was not the center of the universe... well, the church certainly didnt like that. Science once said that the Earth took billions of years to form... well, the church had a big problem with that claim. Science once said that life evolved over billions of years rather than be instantly created in its present state... well, the church didnt like that one bit.

Science once said that lightning was a cause of electrical charges being built in clouds... well, the church had a problem with that one. Science once said that men's sperm determined the gender of a newly formed baby... well, the church protested against that finding for awhile. Science once said that matter and energy are eternal... well, the church fights that claim to this day!

Superstitious humans wrote the Bible. Superstitious humans created the church. Superstitious humans denigrated science throughtout the ages, and continue to do so. Yet superstition didnt discover electricity; it didnt discover the shape of the Earth; it didnt circumnavigate the globe; it didnt put humans on the moon; it didnt discover penicillin; it didnt create circutboards; it didnt invent telescopes; it didnt discover gravity; it didnt discover the law of conservation of matter/energy; it didnt discover DNA.

superstition didnt do anything worthwhile.

On the other hand, science has beat superstitions sorry ass every time they came head to head. Who was right about all the things I just mentioned? Science.

What tool was used to discover that prayer DOESNT WORK? Science. What tool was used to discover that Jesus didnt exist and never rose from the dead? Science. What tool was used to discover that the universe is eternal and that God is superfluous? Science. Between superstition and science, which one will you bet on when you have a heart attack, or cancer, or when you need to travel across the world, or when you need to make money, or when you need to invent a new machine, or when you need to adpot a healtyh lifestyle, or when you need to get ANYTHING USEFUL done?

Science.

say no to christ said...

You go Arron. Lol

Hooooraaay for science! Science does woop religions ass every time.


This comment I hear sooooo many christians make... "according to the Bible Jesus Christ died for you and paid the ultimate price so that you might have salvation at the hands of the Almighty God DIRECTLY."

Cracks me up and never fails to have me ROTFLMAO!

On the way home from Richard Dawkins book signing last night, my daughters,and husband and I were talking about the crazyness and sickness in the belief, that we humans are so bad, that someone, and even worse your own son, has to be brutaly tortured and killed to pay for others sins. My youger daughter said.."why didnt he just punish the sinners? MAn, I'd make life misserable for those I got punished for, especially if I didnt do anything." All my husband and I could say was..EXACTLY! Lol

olly said...

Lol, your daughter shows remarkable wisdom Amy... be nice if all these Bible PHD's running around showed the same.

-olly

Roya said...

Moral traditions of humanity?
Does he mean burning witches & homosexuals, waging war for god, treating women like holes for penis, etc.
I'm glad we are losing our im"moral traditions of humanity". Any moral person should be.

Aaron Kinney said...

SNTC,

You were at a Dawkins book signing last night?

LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!! :D

I ordered my God Delusion copy a few days ago on Amazon. I cant wait for it to arrive!

Robert O'Brien said...

What tool was used to discover that prayer DOESNT WORK? Science. What tool was used to discover that Jesus didnt exist and never rose from the dead? Science. What tool was used to discover that the universe is eternal and that God is superfluous? Science.

Science has yet to "discover" those things, Aaron.

Robert O'Brien said...

I am waiting for Dawkins to darken my university's doorstep so I can ask him some pointed questions.

say no to christ said...

Thanks Olly, my youngest has had almost nill exposure to religion and just cracks me up with her responses to religion. She had a tuter once that made a comment "as sure as jesus walked on water" to her and she looked that woman straight in the eye and said "don't be silly, noone can walk on water!" She was only eight at the time and had a dead serious look on her face. All I could do was laugh and tell her how right she was. lol My other two have had a little bit of exposure to religion, but were never indoctrinated. My husband and I were never comfortable with that, so reversing the damage wasnt much work at all, thank goodness.


Arron

The book is really good so far and Dawkins is an AWESOME speaker. He's very charming and very funny. It was well worth the hour drive.

You can check out the back of my husbands head on Dawkins website.lol He's the only one without a bald spot and a military haircut in the dark blue shirt. The girls and I were on the other side and didnt make it in the picture.

http://richarddawkins.net/article,254,Menlo-Park-CA-Event,Book-Tour-2006

Anonymous said...

Hah. Many of these posts just crack me up. Science can find out the laws of nature. These things can be used for bad or good. The bad or good has to be determined according to some criteria. Science cannot determine it. To quote the famous commercial: "lawnmowers don't kill people, people kill people".
I work with scientists every day. Some of the greatest scientists believed in God and achieved that greatness because they believed that God created an ordered universe.
Anyone who has blind faith is an idiot, whether that faith is in God or in science. Most christians do not have a blind faith but a faith based on evidence, and lots of it.
By the way, some of you should read more technical papers. There have been many published studies showing the positive effects of prayer - even 'blind' prayer at a distance.

Aaron Kinney said...

Anonymous,

Hah. Many of these posts just crack me up.

Yea, isnt it insane that in this day and age people like me still have to fight such absurd superstitions? :P

Science can find out the laws of nature. These things can be used for bad or good. The bad or good has to be determined according to some criteria. Science cannot determine it.

Why cannot science determine criteria for bad and good behavior? Cant science, for example, show that gravity is real and therefore conclude one should not go jumping off tall structures?

To quote the famous commercial: "lawnmowers don't kill people, people kill people".

Sure! Actions are either good or bad, and the use of science allows us to show which actions are good or bad.

I work with scientists every day. Some of the greatest scientists believed in God and achieved that greatness because they believed that God created an ordered universe.

Sure, some great scientists have believed in God. But good luck in proving that their belief in God was the cause of them conducting great science. The Bible says nothing about how to set up a double blind experiment, or the virtue of using ones own judgement and common sense. "Lean not into thine own understanding..."

Anyone who has blind faith is an idiot, whether that faith is in God or in science.

The only kind of faith is "blind" faith. The phrase "blind faith" is redundant, just like "single bachelor" or "wet water."

Most christians do not have a blind faith but a faith based on evidence, and lots of it.

Bullshit. Faith according to the Bible is belief in things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen. Thats about as blind as it gets.

If one has evidence, then one does not have faith. I dont have faith in the existence of my Mustang, but I have evidence of it. Faith is belief by virtue of that belief's unsupportability.

Scientists dont have faith in science. They have evidence for its effectiveness. It is falsifiable. Faith is not falsifiable.

By the way, some of you should read more technical papers. There have been many published studies showing the positive effects of prayer - even 'blind' prayer at a distance.

Again I call bullshit. In fact, I do read lots of technical papers about the effeciveness (or lack thereof) of prayer. Maybe YOU should try reading them sometime. They have all concluded that prayer doesnt do any good. And if you ever find a "technical" paper that actually does confirm prayers' effectiveness, let me know. I havent found a single one yet and Id love to get my hands on one if it exists.

Lawnmowers are people too! said...

Haha, I'm with anon. Some scientists do exhibit blind faith. What else can you call jumping to unwarranted conclusions? Conclusions not based on the scientific evidence?
Religion is dead - yep, hear that about every 100 years. And why not throw oneself off of a cliff? How can science say that is not the best solution? Some environmentalists are even advocating this in general. Science can only go so far and that is fine. No need to make up great claims for science as it is only a human invention and thus limited.
By the way, the pope is a good man. He is also a great man. I'm glad you took the time to notice.