Wednesday, December 28, 2005

The Offspring Murder Club Gets Some New Members

Again thanks to Blacksun for posting about this earlier.

In an earlier post, I formed The Offspring Murder Club. This is a sad, shameful club where membership is strongly discouraged. Yet, there are many pro-afterlifers that are doing everything in their power to join this club, and predictably enough, they are using their pro-afterlife convictions as motivation for murdering their own children!

Recently the club acquired some new members. A total of 9 members of a Mexican family are suspects in the ritualistic slayings of two daughters, one a 7-month-old and one a 13-year-old. Not to mention a dozen or so sacrificed farm animals. A judge recently sent 8 of the family members to a mental hospital.

The article states in no uncertain terms what the family's pro-afterlife worldview caused them to believe about the daughters:

Officials said the parents, grandparents and aunts of a 7-month-old and 13-year-old hacked the baby to death and fatally stoned the teenager earlier this month after they became convinced the girls were demons or possessed by the devil.

Emphasis mine. So what exactly does fervent afterlife-belief serve as a catalyst for? It serves as a catalyst for one to believe that those closest to you are possessed by evil spirits, which gives you motivation and even justification for slaying them. Then it gets you committed to a nuthouse.

And these aren't any simple slayings. These are hardcore blood orgies among family members. Is a blood orgy between family members considered incestuous as well? Sorry I just had to ask it. Here are some more details from the article if you can stomach the visual:

After being tipped off to the killings by an anonymous phone call, officers traveled on foot to the family's hamlet and found the baby girl mutilated and the body of the 13-year-old tied to a stake and battered to death.

What is it that allows one to believe that one's infant and teenage daughters are a supernatural threat to oneself? Immaterial afterlife belief, that's what! Congratulations again on joining The Offspring Murder Club, you religious locos.


BlackSun said...

Nice take on this Aaron. Someone would have to be a HACK not to get this. They'd have to have an incredible STAKE in maintaining their belief. Maybe they'd get it if they got STONED more often. Such people would probably have to be BLUDGEONED over the head before they'd understand. Oh, I guess they were...

Sorry to make fun of this. It's not funny. But given the choice between laughing and crying, I'd rather laugh.

Aaron Kinney said...

haha, what's the hit list, lol? I am laughing right now, I like it, thanks for at least linking to me, no matter which light you view me in, whether it be positive, or negative, I am still grateful.

Yes, regarding that post you made telling me of Christmas. I recently heard of that. I heard about it while watching FOX news, lol. The author of the War on Christmas, John Gibson was featured and they were debating about it. Didn't phase me though, the modern Christmas doesn't worship Odin, so I could care less. I could post it on my blog, but I don't have the patience, nor the ability to post every single little blot concerning an issue, though I should. I'm not the best commenter or blogger on earth.


P.S. I am not impersonating you. Just to clarify your former suspicions.

Aaron Kinney said...

No problem Aaron.

Dont take the hit list the wrong way. Its not in anger. It is mostly there just to list the Christian blogs I have been reading.

Aethlos said...


Aaron Kinney said...

Thanx Aethlos! I am definitely going to have a Happy New Year :)

hashishan prophet said...

Hail thrice unto Prince Aaron, my much-loved son --

Know thou that the desolation of infants is an ABOMINATION unto the LORD. Know thou that thou, the ever-living and beloved Son of God, thou shalt not die, but shalt have eternal life. I shall take thee alive unto heaven, like unto Enoch -- and there you two perfect Sons shall play and amble in the loving light of the Lord, near the nether forest of the naiads of Andromeda. My much-loved Aaron!

In grace toward your perfect, never-ceasing prayer, and your manifest holiness and ritual sacrifive, I have restored gospel commenting upon my gospel blog. Send forth all manner of praise and prayer from all ends of the four kingdoms of the earth. Sing much praise unto the name of SARA-YHWH, Hashishan and Prophet!

Aethlos said...

where are you? time to come home and post again. i hope you haven't become entangeld in religious observances.

Aaron Kinney said...

Sorry Aethlos, Ive been entangled in recovering from massive amounts of New Years partying. Ill have another post up soon.

Young Physicalist said...

To disguish the other Aaron Kinney, just use his middle name: Aaron Christian Kinney, or start posting your middle name.

Aaron Kinney said...

I thought my Mustang avatar was distinct enough? Besides, this is the name of my blogger profile. I dont wanna make a new one.

Young Physicalist said...

Aaron Kinney (the atheist one), you are a libertarian & antitheist. What do you think of this (

Lola said...

Aaron, I came across your blog looking for something else entirely. I find it very interesting and well thought out, yet it screams naivete. I have some questions.
1: If you do not believe that something exists, why do you feel the need to give it another thought? Much less make other people think about it? You are giving more power to something that you say is not even there. The concept of an afterlife is just that-a concept. Bible stories are not history, they are allegory. It is all designed to teach. You are using it to teach by "being opposed to it", yet citing it to make your point. In doing so you validate it's existence, which in turn contradicts your own argument. How do you win with that kind of tactic?
2: Do you really feel so superior that you have chosen a subject that has defied explanation since the separation of light and dark to try to be right about? The entire point is moot. The universal truth is paradoxical in nature. That is what keeps things interesting and keeps us going. The Universe doesn't care what we believe-or if we exist at all. The Earth would probably be relieved to get us off her back. How does your contribution to the "only life that matters:this one" change things for the better on an everyday basis?
3: Aren't you wasting precious time thinking about the Afterlife (or lack therof) just like the people that you ridicule for doing the same? What exactly is the point?
Just curious.
I have a suggestion-Try writing about things that can inspire others to contribute their best efforts to the common good, instead of hashing over an age old argument that doesn't even matter in the "grand scheme". You are obviously a very persuasive and intellegent person, now use it to make a REAL difference.
Thank you for the entertainment-it reminds me of the Monty Python sketch about the argument-"I came here for an argument!" "No you didn't!" "Yes, I did!"

Francois Tremblay said...

Haaaaa ha ha ! Are you serious ? What is this shit ? Let me give my own opinion on your very silly questions :

"1: If you do not believe that something exists, why do you feel the need to give it another thought?"

Because 85% of the world is ruining life for themselves and us sane people. Belief in the afterlife is depraved and immoral, and leads to disaster.

"Bible stories are not history, they are allegory. It is all designed to teach."

Try telling that to the third of the world who believes that the Bible is a history book.

"You are using it to teach by "being opposed to it", yet citing it to make your point. In doing so you validate it's existence, which in turn contradicts your own argument. How do you win with that kind of tactic?"

How does quoting or validating an opponent's existence contradicts our arguments ? I acknowledge you exist but that doesn't make you right.

"2: Do you really feel so superior that you have chosen a subject that has defied explanation since the separation of light and dark to try to be right about?"

You bet your ass we're superior ! Just being atheists make us superior to 85% of the world population.

"The universal truth is paradoxical in nature."

Just another way to tell people to "STOP THINKING, YOU CAN'T FIGURE ANYTHING OUT, IT'S ALL A BIG PARADOX ANYWAY" ! You are a mystic bullshitter.

"The Universe doesn't care what we believe-or if we exist at all."

BRAVO ! Now try to learn that lesson more deeply please...

"3: Aren't you wasting precious time thinking about the Afterlife (or lack therof) just like the people that you ridicule for doing the same? What exactly is the point?
Just curious."

To THINK and REASON, and figure things out ! That is the point.

"I have a suggestion-Try writing about things that can inspire others to contribute their best efforts to the common good"

Can you point to the "COMMON GOOD" ? Can you spend it, wear it, stick it in your stew ? Is this "COMMON GOOD" worth more than 1/2 of 3/4 of F.A. ?

"Thank you for the entertainment-it reminds me of the Monty Python sketch about the argument-"I came here for an argument!" "No you didn't!" "Yes, I did!""

You're more like the person trying to convince us that his parrot is not really dead. "'es just resting !". Your mysticism is dead and buried. Get on with it !

lola said...

It's alive and well, thank you. Arguing with people that do not agree with you is not thinking and reasoning, it is the lack thereof. The common good goes beyond your ego-but since that seems to be so big, it will be a while before you can see past it. In an infinite universe there are infinite possibilities, everyone is enititled to theirs. Know anything about quantum physics? Maybe you should look into it.
The real problem here lies more with the overpopulation problem, not whether people believe in the Afterlife or not-I respect your intelligence, and the points brought up in this forum, or I'd have written you all off as the
"nut jobs" you write about. I would not have wasted my precious time with this.
If you really want to fix the problem, use your brain to figure out how to take care of the problems facing us as we try to live together on our planet, and leave the theology to the people who believe in it. Before you tell me "if that's the problem, then kill yourself," I am going to counter with- I am reducing overpopulation by educating people about birth control, and contributing to reducing std's and unplanned pregnancies worldwide. What is your tactic?
It's all well and good to be full of "spit and vinegar" but if is not directed at something that you can make a change in , then it is as useless as the Afterlife is to us.
If 85% of the world were truly "ruining it for themselves and us sane people"-they'd have wiped us off the face of the Earth by now. Plenty of things not having to do with the afterlife lead to disaster-Plenty of people who believe in the Afterlife create amazing good. Why have such a limited focus? You are not going to change them by telling them they are wrong, any more than I am going to change your opinion. I can accept that we differ, but still know that we both have a right to our opinion. I just don't have to live by your rules, nor do you have to live by mine-we do have the common goal of existing on this planet for as long as we can. I ask again-what are YOU doing to make it better here? Or are you selfish enough to not care about what happens because once you are gone, you are gone? THAT is what ruins things for the people who get it after we are gone. (There IS still life after YOUR life HERE...Heaven IS a place on Earth) What is your contribution?
Want to buy a parrot?

Francois Tremblay said...

Keep repeating it. 'es just resting ! 'es just resting ! 'es not really dead !

Someday it'll come true.

Christian said...

While I am no great authority on quantum physics I would like to point out that“What The (Bleep) Do We Know!?”, where you seemingly gotten your idea of it, isn't either. Even if you didn't get your notion of quantum physics from that shitty movie I think it is you rather than Francois Tremblay that should look into quantum physics.

I would like to quote: "Arguing with people that do not agree with you is not thinking and reasoning". I wonder how much thought you gave to that before you wrote it. I guess any thinking and reasoning person have to avoid an argument at all costs then? Perhaps you wanted to say that YOU don't think and reason when you argue with people that don't agree with you.

I could go on but my point is this: Don't use quantum physics to justify your mystic and wishfull thinking

breakerslion said...

Repeat last comment aloud, over and over again, every Sunday for one hour. It's the antidote! Add one "Never underestimate the power of ignorant people in large groups." Then, when you are sufficiently prepared, check out Why Lynne McTaggert is a Hack

The conclusions being drawn on the findings of quantum physics (by the experts) are so strange that I suspect that they will undergo a revision as drastic as what happened to epicycles when Galileo was finally believed. Meanwhile, any wilder speculation and extrapolation into the macroverse as performed by inspired sophomores should be taken with about 5 tons of salt, or flax if you prefer.

lola said...

You act as though you know so much, yet when it comes down to it, you are merely making assumptions. There is not one place here where I state that I believe in an afterlife. You are all just so ready to defend yourself, you did not take the time to see what you were defending yourself against. I do not have to believe in an afterlife to know that the nature of the universe is paradoxical-there is plenty of evidence from math, science, (and of course religion) to support that claim. Just because something is paradoxical, it doesn't mean you can't try to think and reason and try to prove it isn't (that is the nature, and the fun of paradox!)
Second, my point in the first place was-"if you do not believe that something exists, why do you feel the need to give it another thought?". I did not say "there is too an afterlife!"-this is a whole other thought process.(which might be why you are having trouble with it). If something doesn't exist-why worry so much about it?
Francis says that wasting precious time thinking about the afterlife is "thinking and reasoning and figuring things out." Here is where we differ-"Thinking and reasoning" about something involves being open to the possibilities. Since you have already made up your mind-you have closed it off to the possibilities-therefore you do not need to "think OR reason"-you merely argue a point.
I did not use quantum physics to justify anything-I stated a fact-"in an infinite universe, there are infinite possibilities." I recognize"What the Bleep Do We Know" was merely an attempt by a large group of religious and SCIENTIFIC minds to dumb q.p. down for the public. (do you know that it was a shitty movie because you saw it? Again I ask-why waste the time?) I gave you credit for being intellegent-I did not have to insult you to make my point (okay I guess the big ego thing could be construed as a putdown, but I was just calling it as I saw it-and still do) and I respected you enough to ask a question that was based on the fact that I am aware that you do not believe in the afterlife. Because you ASSUMED that I was an "Afterlifer" you did not respect me enough to answer it. Or perhaps you did not understand it, or you simply don't have an answer...or you are an underpant's gnome-and really have no plan (past arguing with people who do not agree with you about something that "does not exist")
Again-the original question-that none of you have still been able to answer is...since you believe that this is the only life that matters, what are you doing to make it better for the people who are living it with you-or is that not a consideration? Is the only life that really matters, your own-and fuck the rest? I just asked what you were doing to use your powers of reasoning and persuasion to help this world out? Talking shit about the "Afterlifers" is not doing any more good for humanity than their belief in the Afterlife. If you say they are ruining it-then you must have a plan for fixing it (besides getting rid of all the afterlifers). I am simply asking what it is, and whether you are implementing it-LEAD BY EXAMPLE. Why would this world be a better place if everyone was an Atheist? What would you do then, and why not start now? It's a simple question.

Aaron Kinney said...

Wow Im gone for a weekend and my comments explode! Nice!


1. Because other people feel the need to give thought to things that dont exist. If your family was obsessed with imaginary invisible pink unicorns in your backyard, you would want to spend some time disproving them wouldnt you?

2.I dont feel superior. And the afterlife isnt "superior" either. It is a fully approachable and debatable topic that shouldnt be considered some holy mystery that one cannot address the issue armed with what we know so far.

3. Its not a waste to me. To me, those who believe in the afterlife are wasting their time. So its not a waste for me to use my time to help save their time. Not only that, but I HAVE indeed deconverted a number of people in my years of atheism. So I think it has been a very good time investment with a very favorable amont of return, thank you very much. You need to think these questions through more. I think its a pretty logical and easy explanation here. I am suprised that I am having to explain myself on such elemental levels.

I wonder if youre pissed because after reading my blog you have less confidence in your own afterlife belief? If so, then it would be more proof that Im not wasting my time.

Aaron Kinney said...

Oh yea, Lola, I almost forgot:

YES, the world WOULD be a better place if it was mostly, or all, atheist.

Atheists commite less crime, have better education, and contribute more to society than their religious counterparts. They will spend less time worrying about a nonexistent dimension and instead focus more on this existence.

Atheists are overrepresented within the scientific and Nobel laureate communities, but are underrepresented in jails and nuthouses. Atheists are less sussceptible to psychosis and are more humane.

Atheistic societies outperform their religious counterparts on every positive indicator, from education to crime to health to lifespan to economic productivity. Ive written extensively on this in previous blog entries and have backed it all up with relevant linked sources.

And yes I do lead by example. I practice my superior moral code and explain to those around me the reasons for my choices in life and the worldview behind it. Those around me see me consistently reach my goals in the educational, professional, and social aspects. Many of my peers admire me and give me much positive feedback on the results of my choices and actions that they observe daily. I have deconverted many friends and they are happier, better people because of it. I am always willing to share my knowledge and politely but firmly debate superstitious ideas with those around me.

So theres my answer to your simple question.

Incidentally, how do you lead by example and what worldview exactly do you subscribe to? I suspect you are a Bible type or some kind of mystical/spiritual person who believes in ghosts and such, correct?

lola said...

Thank you, Aaron. I asked for an answer, and you gave it, without going straight for my throat. That is all I was asking for. I am not "pissed" about your blog, as I stated I find it interesting, and well thought out or I wouldn't have wasted my time. It just seems so extreme-it comes across as "you suck if you don't believe what I do" in many ways. In this way I think you probably miss out on opportunities to change a lot of minds who are looking for answers. I admit I got my hackles up when I was attacked and berated when it was assumed that I was "an afterlifer" (read through previous blog entries to see how your "stand-ins" and I all made frustrating errors in our discussions-ASS OUT OF U&ME) I have a concept of something but I refrain from going as far as to call it "the Afterlife", It is not that of heaven and hell, or that I will mysteriously waft out of my body in full form to go up and then come back as a baby again (who wants to go through that again!) Energy does go somewhere, who am I to say where?-My immortality lies in my legacy, what I leave this planet in my wake. One of my closest friends is an Atheist, he is the poster child for walking your walk. He is also one of the kindest and gentlest people I know. He is a psychology professor and a peace activist. I admire him greatly. My own experience has led me places that I cannot explain to others. I am firm in my beliefs, I do not expect to convert anyone to them, I do not want anyone to tell me that I am wrong for having them. I am open to sharing them if someone asks, and exploring the beliefs of others. I too have a high moral standard, not because I might get in trouble with the big guy, or the universe, or the "Great Amoeba" or whatever, but because it is good for me and the people around me, and because I am a brilliant individual!!!
I lead by example through my work in art therapy. I help people (mostly women) deal with situations where they are depressed, abused, unstable...etc. The reason I came across your site was because one of the women that you wrote about is someone that people I know were working with. Help came too late, she had a lifelong psychosis and ran when help came too close-even though she kept reaching out for it from everyone. I am familiar with many forms of religion/spirituality through years of study and fascination with the subject. I respect folks like you who are sure that they don't believe. I am fascinated with science, math, art, religion, just about everything-I am a lifelong student. It helps me to relate to the people that I work with. My brain is always on-I might as well use it to figure out something more than what's on tv-or for dinner-or.... I do not care if there is an afterlife-I can't say for sure that there isn't-I'm not sure what anyone else would call my beliefs. (Agnostic-for lack of another word-I personally like "Lolaism"-but that's MY ego talking). It doesn't matter, we all figure it out for sure in the end-we just might not agree on where the end is exactly. I make a difference every day-I too am admired and get positive feedback for my contributions and choices. I inspire people to help themselves and then help others.
Know that I am not likely to convert to Atheism any time soon-but also know that I respect you for your opinion. Thank you for answering my question-(let that be a lesson for the rest of you.)