Tuesday, October 11, 2005

They Pray for Armageddon

I made a big mistake today, and almost lost my breakfast as a result. I was bored and decided to lurk on the Rapture Ready Bulletin Board for a few minutes. The first thread I saw was entitled I believe God used a white horse to answer my question. Just look at the original post in this thread:

I just woke up because my dogs were barking and I let them outside. I looked to see what was riling them up and there were two horses in my back yard, one brown and one white. Now, I know they are my neighbors so I didn't think anything strange about it except the white one just stood there and wasn't eating grass. He was perfectly still for a good 10 minutes, so I felt compelled to wrap a blanket around me and walk out there. (I have 2 acres and he was in the very back) I got half way there and stopped. The light from the telephone pole was shining on him, but I was in total darkness where he couldn't see me very well, if at all and he didn't act like he knew I was there. My dogs kept barking at him and the brown one was eating grass and stomping at them getting aggravated, but the white one just stood there perfectly still like a statue. I had asked God a few days ago if He could give me a sign if Jesus is very close to coming back for us. I also said that if it's a sin to ask for a sign, then please disregard this request. LOL! I asked God while I was out there standing looking at the horse if he is using this horse as a way to answer my question or am I just overblowing the fact that they simply got out of their pasture. As soon as I asked that, the white horse turned his head and looked at me and started walking toward me. He walked right up to me to let me pet him. Up to that point, he acted like he didn't even know I was there and I hadn't made any noise or said anything outloud to bring attention to myself, but as soon as I asked if this horse was my sign I was asking for, he walked up to me.

To clear up a few things, I know Jesus will come back on a white horse at the end of the tribulation and not the rapture. But what makes this special to me is that I had been talking to my husband about that same white horse a few days ago and how Jesus will come back in the end on a white horse and how horses are mentioned so much in the bible that God must really have a special affinity for them.

I came in and felt like I had experienced something wonderful and I told God that I'm going to keep it to myself because when I tell other people, they squash my feelings and tell me I'm just imagining things. But God told me to come on here and tell my story for those who want to know it and who will be blessed by it and to ignore those that will scoff at me because they will find out soon enough what's what.

Karen


As if that wasn't insane enough, take a look at the very first response to this thread from another member:

I pray that it was a sign to you because I'm ready for Jesus to come get us. Today would be fine with me.


That's what these people do all day! They look for "signs" in any old normal everyday event, or even in natural but not-so-everyday events, and fantasize about the end of the world. They really believe that motionless horses are messages from God, and their fellow Rapture buddies share their delusions! They are very scary. Or very pathetic. Actually, I think both.

I also recently got word that Pat Robertson thinks that all these recent hurricanes and earthquakes are signs that we are in the end times, and that Jesus is coming very soon. All I can say is that I sincerely hope that Pat Robertson is holding his breath.

As for all these other death-worshipping Christoids, I wish there was some way to save them from their delusions. It's not like they have a very good chance of being deconverted, since their desire to believe is so incredibly strong, but it would be nice if they at least stop fantasizing about a global Armageddon and maybe appreciate this existence on Earth a little bit more, and work to make it better. Most Christians don't spend so much time obsessing about the rapture. Most Christians spend the majority of their energy being concerned about this life and this existence (as they should), and work to make it better. Most Christians are good productive people the majority of the time because of the fact that they don't obsess over their delusions of some grand Armageddon all day long.

I think its safe to say that these Rapture Ready cultists are hardcore, extremely devoted Christians. I think it’s also safe to say that most Christians aren't as intense, as devoted, or as insane as the Rapture Ready variety (though they still have a mental disease). And finally, I think its very accurate to say that the better Christian you are, the shittier person you are, and vice-versa.

Afterlife-belief is poisoning the minds of our fellow humans, as Karen at Rapture Ready was so kind enough to demonstrate for us. It is a fantasy that has infected the minds of our peers and threatens the existence of all of us life-loving freethinkers. We've got to kill it. Kill it dead. If we don't, then Karen and her fellow Christoids in the White House will bring about an Armageddon of their own (or did they already?).

33 comments:

The Wanker said...

You know the really scarey thing? If there was something that we knew was going to cause an end of the world type scenerio, say an asteroid or comet or something, but we had plenty of time to figure out what to do about it, these would be the people that would be trying to foil the attempts to save the world, the kind of people that could actually cause us to go extinct.

Aaron Kinney said...

LOL the wanker, good point!

What you said ties in with a previous post of mine where I claimed that there are no theists in foxholes. Well, maybe some Jihadists are exepmt LOL.

But yea, if a comet or something was coming to destroy us, I will bet money that the Christians in the Western World would give NASA a ton of money to try to stop the comet and save the planet, because once the foxhole scenario appears, the Christians act just like the atheists and work their asses off to keep their little material bodies, including their material consciousnesses, intact.

Maybe the Rapture Ready people would fight it though :(

The Wanker said...

I'm the anonymous guy from the previous topic by the way.

Aaron Kinney said...

Thanks for the info The Wanker. If you can, keep using your handle instead of "anonymous" in the future so I know that its you ;)

Anonymous said...

does the name Jesus Christ make you afraid athiests? is tat why you demonize believers?

Aaron Kinney said...

No anonymous. it is the inhumane behaviors that Christianity provokes of its adherents that I am afraid of. I said so quite clearly in the blog post.

And you are question begging. I dont demonize believers. They are demonizing themselves. Im merely calling a spade a spade.

Is it the atheists that demonized Dena Schlosser or Eric Rudolph? Is it the atheists that demonize the incestuous and pedophilic Catholic Priests who hid their crimes against children for decades? Is it the atheists that demonize Pat Robertson who is addicted to prostitutes and using charity donations to fund his diamond mining activities?

Quit trying to blame atheists for the conduct of Christians. It is the ideology of Christianity that demonizes its own adherents.

Anonymous said...

Yes. Unfortunately, they don't see it, themselves.

Butterfly Fox said...

I have prayed for Armageddon.

I'm tired. Tired of the constant pain and anguish that this world sees day after day.

If there is indeed a heaven like it has been promised; I'm ready for it.

The Wanker said...

I could understand that, wanting the pain to end and such. But it just sounds weird hearing people say "yay! the end is near! Thank god!". I wouldn't rush the end of the world, you know, incase there isn't all of that heavenly stuff, I mean, if the end of the world came in a biblical sort of way it would be okay I suppose, but I would hope that in the event of the aforementioned example of the comet, which would be a natural phenomenon, that some crazy wouldn't stop us from stopping armageddon, 'cause that's pretty much like suicide for the human race.

Aaron Kinney said...

Dena Marie May:

The pain and misery in the world today is caused by religion and collectivism. For you to turn to religious armageddon as the solution to the problems in the world is rather insane IMO.

I got a better idea for you. Why dont you shed your ancient superstitious beliefs and put your stock into humanity instead? The thing is that since Ive become an atheist, Ive seen the world as "glass is half full" instead of the bleak outlook that you have. If you want to inspect the good things in life, then you need to recognize that the best places in the world to live are also the least religious places. If you want happiness, you will only find it in yourself and the recognition and fulfillment of your values, not in some external imagined deity who promises to destroy the world and send your peers to eternal punishment.

The world is most definitely getting better in general. Its quantifiable. Its proven. And its all due to the gradual shedding of religion by society. Embrace the progress, embrace the future, and leave the cult of Christianity.

Francois Tremblay said...

Death... suffering... genocide... slaughter... hatred... sacrifice... blood... gore... destruction... poverty... guilt... self-negation... brainwashing... in the name of the Lord our God, amen.

Tanooki Joe said...

You could just kill yourself, ya know. Is there a reason you have to take us with you? We actually kinda like it here in reality.

Chad said...

Oh, please make it end (this Armageddon prayer stuff not the world). Look, superstitious people overloaded on 'Left Behind' books can yield this sort of thing. Aaron, I can see why you'd want to 'kill the afterlife' after aforementioned reading. But just understand it's not supposed to be like this dispensationalist/fundamentalist propaganda would have you believe, okay?

There's a whole different way. Christ wanted people to talk and understand and have compassion and enact positive change on our culture in THIS lifetime, of which eternal life will be a mere extension. In practice, this is not entirely different from what you advocated above, except that the hope rests in Christ and not humanity.

Sorry for taking up your comment space here, but I just had to say something in defense of 'another way'.

Butterfly Fox said...

Aaron you said: I got a better idea for you. Why dont you shed your ancient superstitious beliefs and put your stock into humanity instead?

My response: I have placed my stock into humanity. I just find it extremely difficult to accept the fact that our purpose on this earth is just to work ourselves to the bone day in and day out for years upon years, only to die and that's it.

I most certainly would like to accept that we live, and then we die as the honest truth. But I can't. I wish I could though, because it would save me a lot a questions and confusion.

Tanooki said: Why don't you just kill yourself?

My response: That is something that lingers within me more often than I would like to admit. But to imagine the angst it would bring upon my family, is the only thing that has prevented me from doing so. Besides, I'm afraid that if I attempted to off myself, that I would live through it and become a vegetable.

I know that this all sounds crazy. To believe in something that you cannot touch or see. But I feel it. And I wish there was a way that I could prove it to you. But I can't.

Aaron Kinney said...

Hey Chad!

Oh, please make it end (this Armageddon prayer stuff not the world).

Hear hear!

Look, superstitious people overloaded on 'Left Behind' books can yield this sort of thing.

Again, I agree.

Aaron, I can see why you'd want to 'kill the afterlife' after aforementioned reading. But just understand it's not supposed to be like this dispensationalist/fundamentalist propaganda would have you believe, okay?

Again, I agree. The creators of the Bible and other holy books didnt intend for this kind of insanity. Death-worship and a desire for the world to end was not the "intended" result of the authors of the Bible IMO. They were honestly trying to figure out the world and make it a better place for everyone. The only problem is that they were totally ignorant and got everything ass backwards and essentially paved a road to Hell with good intentions. While its not the intended result, it is indeed the actual result.

There's a whole different way. Christ wanted people to talk and understand and have compassion and enact positive change on our culture in THIS lifetime, of which eternal life will be a mere extension. In practice, this is not entirely different from what you advocated above, except that the hope rests in Christ and not humanity.

From what Ive read of the Bible (Im not gonna pretend to know as much about the book as you do, but I am very familiar with it just the same) Christ told everyone to not bother storing up valuable things and producing material things in this world because there was no point due to the impending and quick return of Him. Boy am I glad nobody, not even Christians, followed this advice! Where would humanity be without the material things weve produced and the technological advances weve made? Ironically, when expensive perfume was poured over Jesus' head, he relished in it and encouraged that kind of behavior. Not a good way to lead by example if you ask me. Jesus said that we should foster animosity between ourselves and our family members, and that we should hold him higher than any other conscious entity in existence. Not a very nice way to repay my Mom for bringing me into the world. Jesus said that we have to hate our own lives to be worthy of him. Not very helpful for my self esteem. How can I love anyone if I dont love myself?

Jesus was a narcissist. I have a copy of the DSM 4 and Jesus/God meets every one of the nine points, in which only five of the points must be met to qualify as a narcissist.

Sorry for taking up your comment space here, but I just had to say something in defense of 'another way'.

Please dont apologize. I appreciate your comments and your engagement of my arguments. I didnt make this blog as a cheerleading hangout for atheists. I want to be challenged and to have my blog posts addressed and dissected by theists. Im glad youre the one doing it too because youre a nice guy and a smart guy.

Ive done alot of blog posts about (as I see it) death-worship among the faithful. Of course, the faithful dont see it that way, but to anyone who doesnt belong to superstition "x", they will see superstition "x" as a death-worshipping cult. Whether its Islam or Christianity or Hinduism or any of the others, they all have their own form of afterlife belief, where they put PRIMACY (#1 importance slot) on the supposed next realm of existence that they get to after they die. All these superstitions, including Christianity, shortchange the happiness in this life in order to get a better position in the imagined afterlife or next life. The words of Jesus himself back me up here, and I think you know it.

Perhaps you can share with me things that Jesus said that can be used to improve one's Earthly life? Maybe something like "eat healthy and work hard, and kiss your wife every day"? Or maybe something like "think hard and critically, and learn to control your environment in harmonious symbiosis, for it will help you live longer and healthier and happier"? Or maybe something simple that Jesus said, like "believe in yourself"?

Did Jesus say anything like that?

Aaron Kinney said...

Hi Dena Marie May!

My response: I have placed my stock into humanity. I just find it extremely difficult to accept the fact that our purpose on this earth is just to work ourselves to the bone day in and day out for years upon years, only to die and that's it.

Well, if the glass is half empty for you, I dont know what to do other than tell you that your perception is off. I see it very differently. I also dont thinkg the purpose on this earth is to work myself to the bone. But I do think that we all just die and cease to be and thats it. What is important is what you do in the meantime. Ican tell you that I do alot more than work myself to the bone. I live, I love, I learn, I excercise my mind, I enjoy social circles, I feel love with other people, and I feel amazement every day just for being alive.

I would be depressed if I found out that the truth was that we were created by an all powerful God, and he equipped us with reason and logic and self esteem, only to DEMAND that we abandon all those things and just submit to him, belly up, like the ultimate subordinate to the ultimate sadistic boss. THAT would be depressing.

I most certainly would like to accept that we live, and then we die as the honest truth. But I can't. I wish I could though, because it would save me a lot a questions and confusion.

Why cant you? Because you believe it isnt true, or because you dont WANT it to be true?

My response: That is something that lingers within me more often than I would like to admit. But to imagine the angst it would bring upon my family, is the only thing that has prevented me from doing so. Besides, I'm afraid that if I attempted to off myself, that I would live through it and become a vegetable.

I know that this all sounds crazy. To believe in something that you cannot touch or see. But I feel it. And I wish there was a way that I could prove it to you. But I can't.

Can you describe how you feel it? Normally if theres things we cant touch or see (like radio waves for example) we can still devise ways to detect them. We cant see air, but we can feel it. We cant see or feel radio waves, but we can detect them with technological artifacts. Is there any way to detect what you "feel" outside of your own mind? If you only feel it in your mind, and it cant be detected outside of you, then what makes you think it isnt only your imagination?

I used to "feel" ghosts in the hallway of my house when I was a little child. If the hallway was dark, it "felt" like there was a ghost behind me. It scared the crap out of me and I would run into my room and slam the door before the ghost got in. Now in all seriousness, please ask yourself this question: do you think I was imagining it, or that there were actually ghosts in my hallway?

There are a bunch of people locked up in mental institutions who claim that they are messiahs. They believe it sincerely. They "feel" it. Now, if I am to believe you on your say-so Dena, should I also believe these people on their say-so? After all, their emotional appeals are at least as sincere as yours. Why should I doubt what they "feel" as well?

Sr.Jesus said...

I know of a very popular christian song in Brazil that is interesting. The author is saying that when we DIE we fly to heaven, like Jesus. He is not talking about rapture, but DEATH. And he goes: "I am going to fly. I WISH IT WAS NOW, go to heaven where my father is.

Maybe he feels this way (how sad) but it is not true for the absolute majority of christians. In the comet issue, most of them would join efforts to survive. There are no theists in foxholes.

Chad said...

Hey Aaron, I really appreciate your attitude in wanting to engage with theists. What I most want to accomplish with blogging is to gain a better understanding about different viewpoints and converse and learn where people with radically different worldviews are coming from and why. I think you share some of that desire, too, and that's cool.

Okay, back on topic, Jesus said and did plenty of things that serve as a great example for bettering our earthly lives. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' and 'Judge not lest ye be judged' come to mind. Additionally, there is amazing wisdom in the parables he told that would absolutely better society were people to adhere to them (humility, rejection of materialism and obsession with stuff and money, loving ones enemies, etc).

You pulled out and paraphrased some verses and I would say only that my approach to Scripture is antithetical to this. The Bible is not intended to be used as a silver-bullet or as a source of a bunch of self-help formulas. It is not formulaic at all. No seven steps, but rather stories that are intended to foster better relationships with God and our neighbors.

Anyone can find their own agenda and back it up with specific verses from the Bible and can view God is his/her own image or reject God with verses out of context. Trying to read entire chapters and books in a holistic fashion and without an agenda will yield entirely different results.

Cheers!

Aaron Kinney said...

Hey Chad,

Yes it looks like we are almost on the same page. I have one additional goal though: to deconvert as many theists as I can into atheism or at least agnosticism. So I guess you could call me an evangelical atheist LOL

What Bible verse does 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' come from? I was under the impression that this was an ancient "Golden Rule" that didnt originate from the Bible. Am I wrong?

Delta said...

Great post AK, keep up the good work! We really must get all people who treasure life to get up and stand up against religion before it created the end of the world that it so desires.

breakerslion said...

If I have said it once, I've said it 1000 times. First they give you the disease, then they sell you the "cure".

Dena Marie:

The despair you are feeling is largely the instigation of the institutions that fed you all the crap about this lifetime being worthless, and made you the guilt-ridden and ashamed person that you are today. If you had a proper perception of self worth, you would realize that you can accomplish anything you set out to do (within reason), and that nobody said it would be easy, and that the challenge of life is to overcome one's difficulties, or at least to rise to the challenge. Failure is merely a new challenge to reassess one's goals and methods.

Nobody ever told you any of that did they? Or, if they did, you did not believe them, especially about the part where you are a valuable human being. Instead, your institutions told you that you were inferior, and defective (original sin, for example) and threw up massive cemeteries to remind you that, "you gonna die!"

If you truly believe what you say you do, Throw yourself off a high cliff (be sure to leap way out), and ask for forgiveness just before you go "splat". If the cliff is at least as tall as a five-storey building, you will not survive. The overload to your nervous system will be such that you probably won't feel any pain either. According to your faith, you will then go to heaven. Your family, according to your beliefs, would do best for themselves to follow your example. If something about this scenario doesn't feel right, then you might want to stop eating at the table of misery and despair. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and tell those self-important authority figures that have been feeding you all that garbage to go f__k themselves, you're just as good or better than they are!

By the way, wanting the whole world to end just because it does not meet your expectations of a good life is just spiteful. I blame those that set this example for you. Empty yourself of the poison that you have ingested over the years, and the world will smile back at you. I know, because I did.

Aaron Kinney said...

Preach it, brotha!

Chad said...

Aaron, The Golden Rule was part of Christ's Sermon on the Mount and is found in Matthew chapter 7. Actually, that entire chapter is great for gaining some insight into the moral teachings of Christ. It's debatable whether the Golden Rule was introduced by Christ. It was certainly different from older versions in that it required favorable action be taken toward others rather than being a merely prohibitive rule (such as what Confucius proposed).

Aaron Kinney said...

Thanx for the info Chad. Now that I think about it, I think I do recall something about that in my childhood Bible study classes when we went over the Sermon on the Mount.

I think someone once told me that the Golden Rule predated Christianity by a long time, but I dont know where he got that info. Besides, as you said, it seems that Jesus had a different version than the non-Christian version.

Butterfly Fox said...

Breakerslion,

You said (In a nutshell): The reasoning behind my despair is due to religious institutions feeding me crap about this lifetime being worthless, etc. etc.

My response: I have thought about what you said; and I really do not recall ever being told that I was worthless.

And maybe you are right. If I do believe in what I say I do, then why don't I just jump off that cliff?

Because, I am afraid that I will live through it as a vegetable. That's why.

That's why I haven't off'ed myself. I am afraid that I won't die. Really.

Butterfly Fox said...

Aaron,

I do see perceive the world as: The glass is half full.

You said: I would be depressed if I found out that the truth was that we were created by an all powerful God, and he equipped us with reason and logic and self esteem, only to DEMAND that we abandon all those things and just submit to him, belly up, like the ultimate subordinate to the ultimate sadistic boss. THAT would be depressing.

My response: I didn't know that God demanded anything from me.

You said (In a nutshell): How do I know what I feel is not that of my imagination?

My response: Goose-bumps, chills up my spine, butterflies in my stomach, rushes of peace. Calm. Visons. Deja'vu. (Repeatedly, on several occasions.)

But you're right; how do I not know that this is all my imagination?

And I already know that you all are laughing at me. I realize this.

And upon reading what I just expressed to you; I know that I sound like an absolute nut-job. I don't doubt for a second that I sound like I need to be confined in a straight-jacket. But it's my Truth.

I have reached a point in my spirituality as we sit here at this very moment; in complete and utter confusion.

I don't know what to believe.

I don't know what to believe because I see your views, your points, your observations; and I agree with them. But I agree with my own also.

So what do I do with that?

Please let me leave you with two quotes that a fellow-blogger sent my way:

"Faith is more than belief, it is an encounter."

"A person with an arguement is no match for a person with an experience."

Anonymous said...

A message to all people that pray for armageddon...I am sick of all you mind control people who have taken away my right to live how I want to live and to think freely. I believe we should make the most of THIS life. You people pray for us to make the most of THIS life while at the same time you want the world to end and stuff. Christians are people that are dangerous and that want to control the world so that they could only have it the way THEY want to have it. Oh, and another thing, I know you all want me to go to jail so I can rot and focus ONLY on life after death but I aint havin that.

Butterfly Fox said...

Well, anonymous..I certainly do not want you to go to jail. And I'm pretty sure that nobody else would want you to go behind bars. I'm not sure if you were talking about jail figuratively or seriously.

So please expand on what you said when you said: "I know that you all want me to go to jail so I can rot and focus ONLY on life after death but I aint havin that."

Aaron Kinney said...

Dena:

You said: "Faith is more than belief, it is an encounter."

I disagree here. I personally stick to the dictionary definition of faith, which is "belief without logical proof or material evidence." So to me, an encounter wouldnt be faith but would be a type of proof or evidence. I understand that you have personal experiences that amount to a kind of evidence in your mind, and that is fine. But if you cant sustantiate this experience; if you cant duplicate this thing for anyone else; if you cant point to any evidence outside of your own mind, then you can offer nothing to anyone about your beliefs other than your say-so, and I am not going to simply take your word for it. When people claim things to me, I want them to substantiate those claims with something that exists outside their own thoughts. Otherwise its just a "he said she said" kind of disagreement.

Alan said...

Aaron Kinney said,

I have one additional goal though: to deconvert as many theists as I can into atheism or at least agnosticism.

That is also one of my goals.

I would also say suggest to Dena Marie May that she visit some sites for former Christians. I think you may find some intersting things there that may help you. My favorite is
http://www.ex-christian.net

The 'testimonies of former christians' section of the forum may be of help to you.

Anonymous said...

All I can say is:

If there were a button, that ended it all.

I would push it.

Elaine said...

A friend of mine found this post and showed it to me .... on reading most of your comments I'm wondering... does anyone here really KNOW what the Bible really says about life?.. Jesus said..."I have come to give you life and that more abundantly." the Gospel of John ... So where do you get these strange ideas that those who follow Christ are aare all death worshippers? I'm just wondering what you back all these statements up with?

I'm just wondering because it seems to me there is fear in some of your statements ....

Anonymous said...

I agree that it isn't very productive to look forward to the Armageddon but there are people in this world (some not even Christians) that look forward to some sort of global disaster. They are so fed up with the way the word runs and the mere existence of society that they would love to see it bombed, flooded, or just all together destroyed.

See Aenima by Tool on YouTube.